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Old 01-26-2010, 03:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

Hello all!

I have a F/S kitty that is around three years old and is fed a mixture of EVO (she gets both wet and dry, every other day in separate meals with the kibble fed in treat balls to get her working for her food) and raw (every other day, two meals a day). She is slightly heavy for her size (has the gut skin folds) but is a small cat at 8 lbs today. I think the kids are slipping her extra kibble in a ball cause they think she is starving, and Jasmine plays along . Her BMs are hard and formed, small in size with little to no overt odor. Very uniform regardless of the meal and always two to three individual pieces.

She is a pound kitty that was picked up as a stray with severe ring worm, at around six months. I got here very shortly after that. Her only vaccines were those given at the pound and she was switched to her current diet when adopted. Other than that, she has NO medical history.

She is a healthy and fairly active cat with a brave and sassy attitude. Likes to play and interact with all members of the family. When it was just she and I and the dogs at the old house, she was a happy hunter that would catch a bird or gopher a day, but now is a happy, indoor only cat. She shows no interest in going outside at all and will not explore the great outdoors even when a door is left open for her. We moved to this home a little over a year ago with my boyfriend and his two children. She is very comfortable with the kids and sleeps on their beds and voluntarily lies on their laps and initiates play.

Anyway, she has lately begun having an issue with bowel movements. We first noticed it about two months ago. She was jumping over the kids to run upstairs when a BM fell out. It was thought that it had just been stuck to her fur and dislodged by the jump (she is a DLH) so nothing was made of it. Later in the week one piece of BM was found on the stairs. Just laying there with no scratch marks to indicate she was trying to cover it and not in a corner (the only time I have ever seen this cat try to go outside of the box was in a corner and had marks on the floor like she was trying to cover it.) The a few days later, there was a piece in the bathroom where she jumps from to get on the counter to see the fish. As time goes on, we find them about twice a week.

They are ALWAYS in places that involved jumping or exertion (running up the stairs) and in the middle of the floor. She really does not seem to be aware that it is even happening… He box is cleaned three times a day and she is not urinating anywhere else. She is still having her regular BMs in the litter box as well.

I have been observing her closely and there have been no personality changes, not temp changes and nothing different AT ALL to indicate that anything is wrong. The vet ran a blood panel and everything is normal, he chalks it up to a behavioral issue (but then he is not a behaviorist) and saw no reason to look deeper. I posted in the Health forum because while the vet did not find any issues, she does not seem to be aware, so I can't see that it is a behavior issue. It seems to be involuntary.


The boyfriend has obsessive compulsive tendencies, so the twice weekly BM cleaning is not going over well… I am stumped… ANY ideas out there?

PS: I know it is not cool to, out the gate, start asking questions as a new member. I HAVE been reading the past posts for the last week and doing as much searching, here and elsewhere, for any help. I just can't find anything out there to understand what is happening to her. Her pics are posted below… If they are too large, I will be happy to re-size them...



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Old 01-26-2010, 05:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

Welcome! She sure is a pretty kitty and sounds like an absolute sweety!
If you're really sure it's not just stuck and comes flying off when she jumps (She's got that fabulous coat that looks like it could be a dingleberry catcher. I used to have to clip one of my cats rear area a bit to avoid them.) I'd suspect she could be a little constipated. Not to be gross but, she may be having trouble eliminating everything and a piece is just sort of left almost out but not quite. Then when she jumps or exerts herself, she's able to push it out. I'd try giving her a little pumpkin (plain canned pumpkin, NOT pie mix) and see if that helps. Just about a teaspoon with her meals for a couple of days. And add a little water to her wet food.
The skin hanging down on the belly, BTW, doesn't necessarily mean she's chubby. Some cats just have that and it will never go away so don't go by that to judge if her weight is okay. Here's a body scale that will give you a good idea if she's a healthy weight or not.
http://www.uvhberkeley.com/index.php?Page=bcs
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Old 01-26-2010, 09:03 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

Thank you...

I will add some water to her diet. Actually I have some THK Prowl that is laying around that will be an easy way to get more fluid into her, both with the raw and the wet food. She likes it very much and will have no issues with it. I will just make it with twice the water than is called for and let her lap it up. I think I may even bait her water with tuna water as well... Thanks for the great idea!

I had tried some pumpkin a year ago when she got loose after eating some of the kids pasta sauce... Don't ask... She wouldn't touch it for the world. This from a cat that will happily eat the pasta sauce that got her sick (tomato sauce still stains when it comes back up BTW) and the green beans in butter sauce the four year old left on his plate that was on the counter...

As to her weight, she is slightly heavy... The folds do have a little "chunk" in them and has a barley discernable waist when wet (bathed twice a month, allergies from in both kids). A 6 on the scale if I had to put a number on it. She is healthy, so it is not of the greatest concern at this point, I just keep an eye on her to assess that weeks food rations. But I actually wasn't aware until I came here that some cats just have them genetically. You learn something new every day!
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

Cats don't need and cannot use pumpkin, being obligate carnivores. If she's eating dry food, THAT'S your problem. Switch to a premium grain-free canned food, such as EVO 95% meat, and more than likely the problem will be gone. Raw would be better, but if you're not up for that, grain-free canned will not only take care of this problem but also be better for her overall. See the sticky at the top of this forum for all the reasons why!

She's SUPER pretty!
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:41 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

Thanks for your time!

In a 48 hour period, she gets one meal of EVO wet, two meals of raw and one meal of EVO dry. She has been on this schedule since I got her. I keep the EVO in her diet (not straight raw like the dogs) because A) she is not big on accepting variety, chicken and its cousins is about it. She refuses all organ meat and red meat except hearts, thank goodness. B) the place I board at will not feed wet OR raw to the cats, and I don't want to stress her too much with a switch (she is usually boarded 'cause the dogs are showing/trialing, so their diets remain the same.) And C) she likes the treat ball with the dry in it; she goes bonkers with it and it is a great way to get the kids feeding the cat and it teaches them portion control and keeps her 'hunting' for her meals, as it were.

I always feed in this order; dry, wet, raw, raw then back to dry. I don't know if cats can have the same issues as dogs with regard to digestion rates of kibble and raw, but conventional wisdom says 'yes.'

I will be baiting her drinking water daily and adding water to her wet and THK Prowl that is super sloppy to her raw and see how that goes. If there is no improvement in two weeks, I will begin to omit the dry altogether. I really haddn't thought of her being constipated until it was mentioned here, since she does go in her litterbox.

Again, thank you. And thanks for the kitty compliments! I fell in love with her the moment she was brought in. Even with half of her fur missing from the ringworm. She has sure blossomed!
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

What type of raw meat, precisely, are you feeding? How much bone-in stuff? The problem w/ mixing and matching raw w/ commercial is that it's VERY easy to feed too MUCH of something. Feeding all raw is MUCH easier not to screw up IMO.

I would find a kennel (or better yet, a petsitter) that is willing to feed what your animals are used. I wouldn't give one that wouldn't my business! And really, the WORST time for a cat to be getting nothing but dry is when they are already stressed by boarding. Just asking for a UTI, really.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

Typically I will work my way through a Cornish Game Hen with her, but omitting the wings (little meat, mostly skin and bone). She will get a neck from the dogs chicken, but I will chop it in half and give her that much back in breast or thigh meat if I do, again, meat to bone ratio. I feed the dogs prey model, 80-8-12 M-B-O. None are growing pups and don't need as much bone. I figured the adult cat would be similar (but perhaps not...).

She will not eat red meat, IE beef or pork, will taste rabbit and goat, but is not real interested in it and won't eat much. I have been thinking of trying to transition her to more rabbit by mixing the whole ground (Hare Today) with her EVO wet and upping the proportions of the rabbit, but have not gone for it yet. The dogs LOVE the rabbit, so it goes fast. I need to order some just for the kitty.

She will not take whole fish. Sardines from a can get chopped up and she will eat them sparingly, but never the whole meal. Not her thing. She does like cooked tuna, but I use that sparingly.

While she used to be an avid hunter, she would never eat it. She would actually jump on top of the Rott's crate and drop the gophers down to him... But never ate them her self. Today I can not get her to eat mice or hopper rats. I may be able to skin them and see if she will take them, but eesh, I may have a hard time with that.

As for organs, she eaten the kidneys that are attached to the chicken backs, 'cause they were attached. Liver was eaten frozen one time, but not again. At times, I have slit the chicken meat and hidden a small piece of liver inside, and she will eat that. Hearts are no issue for her. She gets a chicken heart on her raw days, every time, regardless of the rest of the meal.

My options are unfortunately slim with regards to boarding. It is at the place I take her, or the vets. I do minimal vaccinations with the dogs, and now her (as she is now inside only) and don't need her around all the sick animals. I have tried the in home sitter deal, but that went very badly... And the boyfriend is a police officer with security being a HUGE deal for him. I am used to Rotts running around, so security is a very distant thought for me. He is not OK with people having keys to our home. under any circumstances. Luckily the shows are not too frequent and never too long.

Thanks for your time!
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:51 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

The problem is that you're NOT feeding 80-8-12 (not sure why this ratio, but whatever) b/c you're ALSO feeding kibble and canned. See what I mean? You're probably feeding WAY too much calcium, for instance. That's my issue w/ mixing them.

A rawfed cat will poop at MOST one time a day. Usually more like once every 2 days. Small, firm, and scentless.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cat with uncontrolled bowel movements

From my first post
Quote:
Her BMs are hard and formed, small in size with little too no overt odor. Very uniform regardless of the meal and always two to three individual pieces.
And she maybe has them twice in a three day period.

I used the ratio 80-8-12 just as an example to show that she really does get very little bone. Even when working through the game hen (which is modified to remove some of the extra bone), she still gets an extra dose of meat in the form of a heart.

I am pretty familiar with feeding raw. BUT I do know that all of my experience is with dogs and their needs. Heck, I have three who have never had a single meal of kibble in their life. I should have done more research on cat nutrition, and now I have begun to. I have never learned about cats and their perpetual dehydration issues. I will be increasing the fluid intake and perhaps putting a little more effort into her diet.

Thanks again!
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