Need advice for feeding- why do my cats go nuts?

[paperbacknovel]

Similar idea to the thread below, "How much do you feed?", but there are a few other issues going on here.

I have three cats- Coda (13 months, about 8 pounds), Allegro (13 months, 9 pounds), and Forte (11 months, and was 10.5 pounds at his last vet visit a couple of months ago, but has since gained).

I had been free-feeding them Wellness Core dry food with grain-free canned food once or twice a day, but as of a couple months ago, we wanted to take away the "snack bar" and started to put away their food all the time except regular mealtimes and the 8 hours we are gone during the day.

That went over pretty well, so we attempted to transition them to canned food only. That did NOT go so well. They all love canned food, but they started to become very destructive when they were fed only canned. They were constantly on the counters and table, looking for food. They started to knock glasses and picture frames over, and we came home to find broken glass all over the floor a couple of times. Forte would tackle the water dispenser every single day, so we'd find a huge pool of water all over the floor. We have since switched to a big water bowl for dogs, with a rubberized bottom, so that he can't knock it over.

They would also meow loudly every time we went near the pantry or the kitchen, so we thought they were just hungry. We were at a point where we were feeding the two older cats 6-7 ounces a day, and Forte (who is a huge cat--he was always bigger than the older ones, even at 7 months old) was eating 10-11 ounces a day. Then Coda and Forte also started throwing up--maybe because of eating too fast? In any case, we couldn't afford to continue feeding them that way.

We went back to introducing the dry food at limited times and giving small amounts of canned at mealtimes (1-2 oz of canned per cat, per meal). The destructive behavior and counter jumping IMMEDIATELY stopped.

There is really no way to give each cat a certain amount of food unless we separate them. Even though Coda meows like crazy when I'm getting her food ready, she eats her food daintily and leisurely when it's in front of her. Forte gobbles his down at a record pace and then starts in on one of the other cats' food. Allegro just "doesn't get it", I think, because even though I direct him to the bowl in front of him, he prefers to eat from one of the other cats' bowls while they're eating from it, too. He also abandons his food halfway through to cuddle or rub up against me, which gives the little pig (Forte) the opening to come gobble his food.

None of the cats have issues with sharing their food with Forte (no growling or fighting breaks out), but I have to closely referee the entire mealtime if I want each cat to get all their own food.

As a result, Forte has become a little heavy. I can't tell if he's just filling out to an adult size--he's so much bigger than my other cats--but at his vet appointment a few months ago, the vet warned me to watch his weight, because he's apparently the type that can get very big. He has long legs and a very long torso, and his limbs and face are very thin, but lately he's gotten a big belly.

Allegro's the only one who appears to be a healthy weight (based on that chart where you look at a cat from the top down and then from the side), with no belly sticking out or down. This might be because he's so ADD at mealtimes and so playful.

Coda-girl is quite a petite, small-boned lady, but she has a bit of a belly on her. When she's stretched out on the carpet, you can't tell, but when she's in an awkward pouncing position or even just walking on all fours, she looks like she has a beer gut.

All three cats--especially Forte and Allegro--are very active. They chase each other all over the house at top speed. All are able to clean themselves and such.

I'd ask my vet, but she would probably just prescribe low-calorie Hill's kibble, since that and Purina Pro Plan have been the only recommendations she has offered for nutrition. She is supportive of me feeding grain-free, but feels like it's not necessary (the attitude I get at the vet office is similar to the way many people treat someone who eats vegan and all-organic...there's respect for the lifestyle, but they feel like it's extremist, excessive, and unnecessary).

So, any recommendations for how (and how much) to feed so that each cat gets the proper amount of nutrition and no more? How do I put Coda and Forte on a diet without them going nuts? Those two are the worst for food begging and such, and it shows.

Thanks in advance.

[doodlebug]

I have to admit that I'm confused about how much you're feeding these days and what the split is between wet and dry. And whether you're free feeding dry again.

Assessing a cat's weight is not based on their belly...many cats have a hanging belly, it's a genetic thing. The proper way to assess weight is to feel for ribs and spine...pressing lightly, you should be able to feel ribs and spine under a thin layer of fat. When viewed from above there should be a defined waist, but not too indented. This chart should help:

Evaluating your cat's weight - The Purina Body Condition System

The only way to keep a cat out of another cat's dish is to separate them during feeding. If they are meal fed that shouldn't be too difficult to do. I also find that 3 meals a day (not more food, just split between 3 instead of 2) works better for my cats, they don't get as hungry between meals.

[paperbacknovel]

Thanks, doodlebug. I forgot to explain what I am doing now!

Right now I am taking out the dry food (in a feeder) in the morning when I leave for work, and my husband puts it away in the pantry an hour and a half later when he leaves for work. I also split a 3-oz can between the three of them, and my husband does the same when he comes downstairs (we found that giving them more than an ounce of wet food at a time often caused Forte and Coda to immediately puke it back up). I then split another 3-oz can between the three of them when I get home from work, and take the feeder out for about 1-2 hours.

It's really complicated, but "easier" methods, like feeding all of their breakfast at once, caused immediate puking.

I tried putting controlled servings of dry food in their individual bowls so they weren't feeding from the dispenser, but Coda and Allegro just ignored it--Forte went around and gobbled theirs up.

We might try just separating Forte for mealtimes so that Coda and Allegro have a chance to eat, thanks. It means I'll have to wake up at 5:30 instead of 6 in the morning, but oh well.

Allegro is the only one with a defined waist when viewed from above (his belly hangs down a bit but doesn't bulge out), but with Coda and Forte, there's a definite bulge at the sides. If Coda weren't spayed, I'd think she was pregnant. She is very small and skinny everywhere but her belly, which bulges out at the sides. The only time it doesn't bulge is when she's stretched out, laying down.

With all three cats, you can feel ribs under a layer of fat, but all of them feel like they have too much fat. Like when you pet them, your hand hits fat rolls near their back, and it didn't used to be like that. Does that make sense?

[NRD]

Just acknowledging your problem, for now. It's a tough one to solve, I think. You know my Hershey is like your Forte in some respects, and Little Hersh, who I've had since late July, is also very food centric. Hersh used to inhale his food, then horn in on the others. Once he learned, after a few months, that he was getting "enough" to eat (ok, never really enough, but enough to make him less aggressive), he slowed down in eating, so now he is actually the last to finish, going for the others' dishes only after they abandon them. Little Hersh is now the food inhaler, and he will emit little growls and go for the others' food unless I physically keep detouring him, which I do. I feed wet at morn and night and an Evo dry handful for each early afternoon. I could never allow free feeding, or else Hersh would be the size of a house, he would never stop eating until he puked. And so would Blizzy, interestingly.

So I sympathize, and that's why I say it's a hard problem to deal with. I've kept the weights of all four from blowing up through portion control, including my one female, Snowby, who gets much less to eat than the others (one big teaspoon of wet morn and night, plus Evo dry at mid-day) but is also much more sedentary and who thus looks borderline like she is overweight. Blizzy eats his meals and then leaves the others alone-I don't know what's wrong with him!

And they all go crazy excited before each meal and had been seriously hovering over me whenever I ate, though with a coin can I have gradually taught them to leave me alone, at least some of the time.

Little of this helps you, I realize, so let me think about it.

[catloverami]

The only way you can be really sure of how much each cat is getting is to feed them separately---in rooms or carriers or dog crates. You can slow down a piggy cat's eating by spreading the canned food all over a plate so it has to be licked off. Scatter the kibble around a room or carrier so cat has to hunt for it.

[paperbacknovel]

Thanks, guys.

Yeah, it does sound like Forte is acting like Hersh was. We've had Forte for nearly 4 months now, so I hope that soon he will realize that he will not starve. Your reflections do help, because frankly I have been feeling like a crappy cat mom lately, since my attempted switch to canned-only failed so hard, and because my cats misbehave unless they have kibble.

Ami, the sad thing is that I do spread the canned food around for them. They have flat, wide ceramic dishes, and sometimes I even add a little water to the cat food to make it last longer for Forte. Maybe I should keep Coda and Allegro's canned food in one clump on the dish, and just spread around Forte's, so that only he has the handicap. He just inhales it, regardless, though.

It seems like we're going to have to separate them for meals, which will be supremely annoying and time-consuming (mostly because Coda and Allegro take their sweet time), but of course I'll do whatever I can to help the situation. I can just see Forte getting up to 15-18 pounds, easily, because he may not even be done growing and he's already just massive (in that his bones are just huge).

[NRD]

paperbacknovel,

No magic bullets or blindingly smart ideas from me, just a few observations on further reflection.

1. I never feed them in response to any meows or cries, as I feared the positive reinforcement. What happens to me as a result is that when they know it is close to feeding time mid-day or evening, they will come into whatever room I am in and sit down and stare at me. The three guys, that is. Snowball always stays in the kitchen at that time. I find this endearing and hysterical, generally, and I talk to and pet the guys, but I take my time before getting up and feeding them. In the morning, they know the routine, so they wait somewhat impatiently until I'm dressed and then we all bound downstairs (just responding to the meowing every time you went near the pantry point, though maybe you don't encourage it anyway).

2. Like other behavioral modifications, I'd like to believe this, too, can be changed to your liking over time, but with baby steps, like most cat behaviors. I personally would never feed them separately, or else I'd fear I'd be stuck doing it that way the next 15-20 years. Let me assure, you, I had more than my share of food dish issues during the five months of Snowby's socialization with Blizzy and Hershey--she used to flee from her food dish as soon as one of them looked at her cross-eyed. She now stands her ground and eats her full meal, even though she is also a dainty eater. I have the four of them in a row--they all know their place and the order in which I set down their food dishes. It took them awhile to get used to it, and they jostle like crazy while I am preparing their meals, but as soon as I start putting down their meals, they go to their places and stay there, so long as they are eating. Consistency, I kept at it, and they got it over time.

3. Like you, I referee Little Hersh at this point, since he finishes first, to prevent him from displacing the others as they eat. It takes patience and persistence, and it's been four months now, but I am finally noticing that he tries less hard and less often to get at their dishes as they are still eating. I would keep doing it and doing it--I sometimes also distract him with a toy once he has eaten, which also works some of the time, not always, since he's food centric. I never punish or scold him, but I keep saying no to him as I gently but firmly push him away from the other kitties. He knows I will do this, and he walks away and sometimes runs around the corner to get at them from the other side, but I keep firm and never give in. My example is Hersh, who started out like Little Hersh and now leaves the others totally alone while they eat--it took four to five months for that to occur.

4. I cut down on the size of their dry food "snack" to stop budding weight gains. It seems to be the dry, even my grain-free Evo, that has high calories and causes them to pack on the weight. They still love their dry and get their fix, just somewhat less of it.

5. For every wet meal, I mix in enough water to produce a semi-thick soup. I find they all lap the liquid first, then eat the rest, and this slows down Little Hersh a bit, as well as keeps them well-hydrated.

6. I give the four about 7 ounces of wet a meal (one 5.5 ounce can plus some of another) for each of two meals, then just a handful of dry at mid-day. This has kept them from gaining too much weight. When I'm away and for one reason r another they get too much dry and feel pudgier when I return, I gradually reduce their portions over a few days. They meow at first, as if starving, but they do adjust, so long as I don't give in to the meows. That is the key, I think.

Hope this helps a little, or at least gives you your own ideas.

[Kobster]

Something that is working for me is to feed the same amount, but in smaller quantities, more frequently. My kitties are now getting fed a "mouse sized" amount of canned food three to four times a day. This is a change from twice a day feeding and the difference is extraordinary. I think this works on the same principle as it does for people, small frequent meals prevent blood sugar spikes and that extreme "I'm starving" feeling.

I also separate my two to eat so they dont' feel threatened and gulp their food.