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Old 01-21-2013, 02:14 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Thanks Lois for your input and advice.

Are you sure that normal Saline is ok to give because I read on the following website that it is better to use Lactated Ringers Solution (LRS).

Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Tips on Giving Subcutaneous Fluids

It says this:

"Lactated Ringers Solution (LRS)
Human patients with renal failure are given solutions containing a buffer such as lactate known as Lactated Ringers Solution (LRS), and this is also the most common choice for cats given sub-Qs. The nearest British equivalent (it is virtually identical) is called Aqupharm No. 11 Hartmann's solution, although you may also be offered Vetivex 11.

The lactate in LRS is important for CKD cats because lactate is metabolised by the liver where it is converted to bicarbonate, and this aids in the correction of mild acidosis; However, LRS may not be the best choice for cats with cancers such as lymphoma, which can cause lactate to accumulate."

And regarding normal Saline it says this:

Saline Solution (Sodium Chloride or NaCl)
"Saline solution is sometimes suitable for cats with high calcium levels, but it is usually too acidic for a CKD cat, plus it can sting when injected sub-cutaneously which may make the cat resist fluids; it also lacks the buffer contained in lactated ringers, and does not have added potassium, which many CKD cats need. It is also not usually suitable for cats with hypertension or liver problems. However, it may be helpful for cats with hyperkalaemia (high levels of potassium)."

Please advice which one to use because I called the pharmacies in my area and non of them have Lactated Ringers Solution in stock, however they do have normal Saline. To order the Lactated Ringer Solution it will take a couple of days and it can only be bought 10 bags at a time.

Pls advice..thanks.

I also tried calling the vet but she wasn't in , but I did manage to convince the secretary that I really need the Saline to give my cat at home. I mentioned that in the states it is very common to give at home and that there are numerous videos on Youtube where you can see how to administer it to a cat. I was asked to call tomorrow, I think I can pull it off for the vet to give me the supplies. If not i'm going straight to the pharmacy.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:32 PM   #42 (permalink)
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My cat has been diagnosed with lower urinary tract disease. Basically his bladder becomes blocked with struvite crystals. The first thing my vet does after treating the blockage is send him home with LRS for me to administer daily. If you do this, the key is confidence. I found the more confident you ACT (believe me I felt pretty scared the first time I had to do it) the easier it goes, and the cat it at ease because they can tell if you're nervous. I usually set him between my knees, and kind of kneel over him, securing him, and making him feel more calm. I pull up his scruff into a tent and slide the needle in using a clean motion and steady pressure. I usually insert the needle about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way in. If the drip slows on the bag, you can either pull the needle out a little bit or push it in a little bit to give the fluids more room to travel under the skin to get the drip going faster again. I also found that attaching the bag to a clothes hanger and hooking it onto the shower curtain rod in the bathroom is easiest, plus if there's a mishap with the valve or the cat runs off and the needle slips out, much easier clean up.

Good luck with your Snowy. I will be picking up my cat this afternoon from the vet, he had a weekend stay after a particularly bad blockage so they could monitor the elasticity of his bladder.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:57 PM   #43 (permalink)
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WThanks for the info Becky, I hope and pray that your cat's bladder problems is solved or at least much better than before the weekend. Keep me posted k.

I agree with the confidence thing that you said. Animals indeed feel it. I'm not that much worried about administrating it to Snowy, I know I can handle that part. I'm just worried about getting the SubQ on time and that it is the right one.

The thing about kidney problems with cats is that there are so many sub categories that need to be examined. I fear that Snowy is havy lots of stomach acid and is feeling nausea most of the time and therefore isn't eating much. Thankfully she drinks a lot ...but my big question is, what medicine do I combine the SUB-Q's with......

When Snowy was first diagnosed with kidney issues she was put on a special diet and in combination with this she was suposed to take a tablet to keep her blood pressure normal................well.....it went downwards from there........ (not per se blaming it on the medicine.....but it was just strange).

What I understand is that the "Lactated Ringers Solution (LRS) also takes care of excess stomach acid.

Anyway, I'll ofcourse ask the wet...I just hope she will give better advice than just saying to put her down.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:19 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Can anyone please advice which SubQ is best for a cat with kidney failure.

1) Lactated Ringers Solution

or

2) Saline Solution (Sodium Chloride or NaCl)
(this contains 0.9% sodium chloride......isn't salt bad for ckd cats?)
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:04 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Only your vet can tell you which fluid to use for your cat specifically. The vet's recommendation takes into account the blood tests you have done on your cat and reflects whether you can just needs fluids (regular saline) or need fluids, electrolytes and glucose (LRS). This is why I am saying to go to a vet that will talk at length with you. Not all kind of kidney failure is the same and not all cats react in the same way to kidney failure at the beginning of the kidney loss. I have treated hundreds, thousands of patients with kidney failure, and in each case the physicians make their decisions on the types of IV fluids for each and every patient based on their blood picture while they balance the electrolytes your body needs and the fluids needed to flush out the urea and nitrogen wastes your kidneys use to remove those toxins from the body.

Talk to a vet about which fluid is needed for your cat. Normosol is for just hydration; LRS is for hydration, electrolytes and glucose (energy).
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:22 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Thanks Lois for clarifying that and sorry if I was getting a bit annoying with my questions. Just wanted to make absolutely sure.

I just administered Saline with a syringe. I gave a small dosage of 50ML only to start with and she took it well....in fact....she seems happy and relaxed immediately after I gave it. I also realize the down side of a syringe...you can only give small dosages at a time. THis was the easiest method and cheapest at the pharmacy since they Saline bag was 4 times its price at above €20 for just 1000ml. However if you buy 10 bags at a once it cost you only around €45. Anyway, i'll negotiate with my pharmacist regarding that tmrw. Today I just wanted to see how Snowy was taking it and to my delight she took it well.

She has lost a lot of weight ...and I hope I am not too late for her to bounce back.

Indeed Lois I should consult the vet......or a vet...........and discuss the options....
Again thank you for guiding me in the right direction....what you said above i'll also tell the vet so she knows I know the options...

God bless you.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:16 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Hey all,................just informing that it's not going good with Snowy and that I have decided that euthanization is best........
I have an appointment at the vet in about 2 hours time....
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:24 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Oh, I'm so sorry. This is terribly sad and hard, I know! I've been following your round with Snowy so I feel your sadness and loss. Rest assured that Snowy will finally be at peace. She has been a good friend and you have been a good cat parent. I feel you are making the right decision and I will pray for your peace of mind. Words seem so inadequate so consider yourself hugged.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:28 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Hey Marcia, thanks you as always for your advice , support and for that virtual hug.

However I must say that I cancelled the appointment last moment due to a few factors.............

Snowy walking down to the living room and looking me in the eye was foremost I admit... I know that she is at peace with her plight and I can fairly surely say that she is in no immense pain. When I worked in a Budhist country for a few years I've with hurt in my heart seen cats die a natural way.Vets there because of religious convictions refuse to put down animals. So i'm well aware of the sympoms of a cat in pain.....Snowy is one brave cat and i can't think of any human equivalent.....I feel that she is at peace with her plight ..

I tried my level best to get the vet to come home but she couldn't due to a very tight schedule and the next date would be next Tuesday. I want to save snowy the stress of going to the veterinary -a place she hates- and having that place be her final destination while alive here on earth..

I reserved a spot at the vet tomorrow...........today they were jam packed and said they would try and give me more than 30 mins for the euthanasia process..........and maybe it's a good thing i didn't go for i didnt want her euthanesia to be rushed like it was some fast food chain....

A funny occorence happened a while back....I was seated on the ground in the living room working on my laptop when she came and sat right along side me. Now in such a statue like position I have never seen her do that with me before. To me ii think t was her way of saying goodbye to me....She staye dlike that for about a good 20 mins while i petted her.Then she walked up the stairs and I followed her. Upstairs she took one look around at me and slowly went under the bed..... .....This pains me a lot because i know what it means.....but at the same time it might be her way of giving me closure...

Earlier when I spoke to the vet I asked her the procedure of the euthanasia. She said that instead of choosing the vain of a cat whichj may be difficult to find if the at is a kidney patient and skinny...they usually opt to give the injection to the stomach....and i'm talking about a morphine injection. This process will take about 20 minutus during which her eyes will be open all along but she won't be aware of her surounding, she will be asleep with her eues open so to speak.......The after 20 minutes if the cat is still allive...and verts have a schedule to keep.....they will opt to give a morphine injection straight to the heart....
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:43 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I understand your angst. Don't rush it but don't prolong your agony either. I wish I could offer more. They did a similiar procedure to Abby. Put her to sleep first then administered the final dosage after she was asleep. It's not easy to be there no matter the procedure. I'll watch for your follow ups.
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