Not quite diarrhea but not solid BMs with Rx food - Cat Forum : Cat Discussion Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
Cool Cat
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,072
Not quite diarrhea but not solid BMs with Rx food

Hey all!

My dear Tina has been on her prescription food for about a month now and I am sad to report that she isn't having solid BMs. They aren't completely liquid but they aren't formed. They kinda look like the emoji on phones. From my experience and my veterinarian's feedback, they should be like a sticky tootsie roll. I told my vet I'm never eating those again after that conversation!

She's been eating the Purina NF food. We started with this because Tina didn't do so well on Hill's c/d or Royal Canin Urinary SO + Calm and lost weight. She's maintained her weight on the Purina NF but I don't think her body likes it based on the BMs.

I got a small bag of Royal Canin Renal Support S and we're trying that but I'm afraid she'll lose weight. She's getting weighed every other day before dinner so I can establish a trend early.

Other than the food, she's doing rather good since the CKD diagnosis and takes her pill like a champ every day. We started off giving her enalapril but telmisartan was approved for use in Europe for CKD cats and the studies show that it actually is effective in the long term whereas the ACE inhibitor class of drugs (they used benazepril) was not. I found the study and thought it was interesting. I printed it out and gave it to my vet and she said while it's new for cats, she was willing to prescribe it as she knows I will keep up with the blood tests to check for issues. It's available in the US for humans so she can prescribe it off-label. Her creatinine has dropped a bit (at 1.9 now) and hopefully we will stop or at least slow progression of the disease.

Anyways, what do you think about the food situation? Should I continue with the Purina NF or continue trying to Royal Canin Renal Support S? I don't really want to try the Hill's renal food as Tina did so poor on their c/d food. I don't know what to do if none of the Rx foods work. She was eating Orijen before. I'm concerned she has a grain sensitivity now.

TIA <3
scottd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 11:49 AM
Cool Cat
 
maggie23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,130
just addressing the mushy poop for now -
have you tried adding just a little winter squash baby food or pureed pure pumpkin to add a little bulk to it? that won't address the allergy issue to grains if that's what it is, but if it's just some more solidly formed poop you're after, adding this kind of fiber should help. just experiment with the amount she might need. like start with a quarter teaspoon or something with a meal and see how it goes. and hopefully she doesn't mind the taste. I've seen more opinions here that the squash is a little tastier, though. you can buy little jars of it in the baby food section at the grocery store.


maybe it's just the medications she's getting that's causing a bit of almost diarrhea, too. It seems like most of the time the side -effects tend to be the OTHER way - constipation. but you never know. did the vet mention any common side effects for her meds?


good luck with her!

Maggie
Kitty, Lucy, and my sweet Angel forever in my heart.
maggie23 is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
Cool Cat
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,072
We're looking a little firmer. She's mostly eating the Royal Canin now. I guess time will tell if it was just something else in the Purina food doing it.

She's never liked pumpkin and would refuse to eat her food. I'll try it with winter squash! Maybe that'll be more appetizing.

The only side effect my vet mentioned would be decreased kidney function (ironic) in the case of the enalapril and increased liver enzymes on the telmisartan. I did read that some people have a problem with their cat vomiting while on telmisartan but I didn't see any reports of diarrhea. Tina went on a drug holiday for 4 days while I was out of town (our pet sitter is understandably afraid of her and won't pill her) and it did not go away so I doubt it's the drugs.

scottd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 11:15 PM
Premier Cat
 
spirite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Roanoke, Va
Posts: 8,874
I'm glad you found something that she'll eat, and hopefully she'll gain some weight, or at least not lose any. Is she continuing to do better on the RC than on the Purina NF?

I'd never heard of telmisartan. I'm going to ask my vet about it the next time we go. Thanks for mentioning it. And kudos to your vet for listening to you, being open to something new, and being willing to prescribe it for Tina.

How often are you supposed to take her in for bloodwork?
spirite is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 01:46 PM
Cool Cat
 
Stryker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottd View Post
...she's doing rather good since the CKD diagnosis....We started off giving her enalapril but telmisartan was approved for use in Europe for CKD cats and the studies show that it actually is effective in the long term whereas the ACE inhibitor class of drugs (they used benazepril) was not. I found the study and thought it was interesting. I printed it out and gave it to my vet and she said while it's new for cats, she was willing to prescribe it as she knows I will keep up with the blood tests to check for issues. It's available in the US for humans so she can prescribe it off-label. Her creatinine has dropped a bit (at 1.9 now) and hopefully we will stop or at least slow progression of the disease.....
Hi Scott !

The 'Tanya' site has quite a lot of info on telmisartan......with many references and links....and with Helen's personal view/opinions: Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Proteinuria\

Just to say, if I were in your position, I'd join the specialized online community that's attached to the 'Tanya' site. Those people are here: https://tanyackd.groups.io/g/support Here's a piece about how the group 'works': Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Tanya's Support Group

(I know from experience there's good advice about foods available there too.)
Stryker is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-09-2017, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
Cool Cat
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,072
She's actually doing much better on the RC RS-A. I don't know what's in the Purina food but it did not agree with her. Her weight is stable, she seems to enjoy munching on the food (our other cat even tries to steal it), and her poo is firm like a tootsie roll. I thought the corn was causing it but that can't be it is as it's the first ingredient in the RC food.

I love my veterinarian! She's taken such wonderful care of all 4 critters. When we adopted the 2 dogs and 1 of them turned out to have SEVERE anxiety, she saw him probably 5 or 6 times before she even charged us despite us trying to pay. She got him on a cocktail of fluoexetine and alprazolam and he's a totally different dog that actually acts like a dog now. It's amazing. I don't know what I'd do without her.

Tina's been getting tested every 2 weeks and is supposed to get a test tomorrow but due to transportation issues (tire blowout caused a bunch of under carriage damage to my car yesterday ), we're going to do it next week instead. After that, we're following up in 3 months and then every 6 months after unless there is a problem. Her labs are actually looking better. Creatinine has dropped some and phosphorus has also went down a bit.


Last edited by marie73; 03-10-2017 at 12:43 AM.
scottd is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 02:20 AM
Premier Cat
 
spirite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Roanoke, Va
Posts: 8,874
scottd, it sounds like you have a really great vet and Tina's in good hands. And I'm glad to hear that her numbers are improving.

But wow, every two weeks for labwork. Has Tina been handling that well? If it comes to that for Celia, she'll be a basketcase. And yikes, sorry to hear about your car - just what you didn't need.

stryker, thanks for the reminder about Tanya's site. I've consulted it so many times and yet somehow never came across telmisartan. I suppose that's an indication of just how much information is there. Most recently, I looked through all the food charts - I believe they were all updated in the last year. Of course the food that Celia was eating was one of the highest in phosphorus - well over 2.0!
spirite is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
Cool Cat
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,072
Stryker, thank you for the info about the group! I didn't know it existed. I've been reading Tanya's website quite a bit lately. It's such a great source of info.

spirite, Tina is not a fan at all of the vet visits. She generally hates everyone except me and the two chihuahuas. She turns into a demon cat when restrained. I typically give her some Valium before we leave the house to help her calm down. It does make her more compliant but it also lowers her blood pressure so it's even harder to get samples. My vet moved practices in the last year and the new clinic isn't so fond of me restraining Tina. At the last clinic, I restrained her for xrays, cystocentesis, ultrasounds, etc. and we never had an issue. The new clinic won't allow me to restrain her for blood draws. I'm not sure that she would be much more compliant with me doing it anyways though.

Tina has always been "special" at the vet and I think the two of us might be a little too much for the vet techs now. I saw her chart the other day and it's labeled with like 3 warnings and specifies that only 1 vet tech can work with her who happens to be the clinic manager. Our beloved Dr is super though and understands.

She's doing so well on the Royal Canin and has almost finished the little 3lb bag. I went ahead and ordered a bigger 6.5lb bag from Chewy.

scottd is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 12:47 PM
Cool Cat
 
Stryker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 920
You're more than welcome, Scott. Personally, I was 'just' blown away by the group leaders' and experienced members' level of caring, compassion and technical knowledge that was being shared among participants there. I was able to witness cats' lives being enhanced and, in some cases, saved from immediate 'final Vet visits'. Back then it was a very busy group...I understand it's even more active nowadays....so, be assertive to ensure you're seen and heard there! (btw, it's a 24/7/365 service!)

The 'no-restraint-blood-draw' thing worries me.........I have read accounts of cats being severely injured during blood draws from the neck (jugular injuries). Personally, I always ensure that blood draws are done from another area, usually a leg vein/artery. My recommendation for you is to do the same for Tina. Without any form of sedation, again, I'd say that you may need to be extra assertive....some vet-tech staff are known to be extremely "head-strong" - translation: obstinate - in their medical practices and resistant to procedural change. Perhaps make this an issue with the Vet and, have it highlighted in/on the file.

Keep us posted.

Last edited by marie73; 03-15-2017 at 03:37 PM.
Stryker is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:11 PM Thread Starter
Cool Cat
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,072
Ah yeah, they've never tried getting blood from her neck. I wouldn't allow it. We always use her back legs.

The last few blood draws have been good. The clinic manager is very experienced and is able to get the blood on the first stick. The others seem to get nervous and I end up saying we're done, go get the doctor.

scottd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Cat Forum : Cat Discussion Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome