Kittens / Best type of Food?

[noladeb]

For my 2 male kittens... the vet suggested I feed them dry food in the AM and wet food in the evening. She said it will help in their digestion of food/bowel movements for later years.

The problem I'm having is the completely stinky BM's they are having, and they seem to be having them a lot! It smells up the room for at least a half hour. Their stool is normal, its not overly hard or overly soft.

Any suggestions or your thoughts on the above? I'm totally confused on the raw diet thing - if that's even an option for us. I just want to make sure kitties are being fed something healthy and not causing too much waste.

[MowMow]

What brands are you feeding them?

When I first got MowMow (my first cat) I assumed all litter boxes were gross and stinky. Then I joined this forum and learned about proper nutrition and the stench went away.

When I adopted the kitten late last year and they were feeding him dry garbage and WOOOOOOO... first thing I did was get him off that junk and on to a high quality grain free canned 3 times a day.

Now if someone is offensive I know they've either gotten into something naughty (Isolated incident) or there is something going on that needs to be addressed (more than a few incidents of the stinkies).

[noladeb]

I am feeding them Purina Pro Plan Chicken (dry) and various wet foods such as Purina Pro Plan Tuna & Whitefish, Iams Chicken Pate, Science Diet, and a couple of other kitten brands I found at PetSmart for them to try.

[Beth_Laubenthal]

Originally Posted by noladeb

For my 2 male kittens... the vet suggested I feed them dry food in the AM and wet food in the evening. She said it will help in their digestion of food/bowel movements for later years.

The problem I'm having is the completely stinky BM's they are having, and they seem to be having them a lot! It smells up the room for at least a half hour. Their stool is normal, its not overly hard or overly soft.

Any suggestions or your thoughts on the above? I'm totally confused on the raw diet thing - if that's even an option for us. I just want to make sure kitties are being fed something healthy and not causing too much waste.

Raw is an awesome way to go! I would start with chicken. Feed at LEAST 3 times a day. Feed about a quarter to a third of a pound of food a day. Stay with chicken for a couple of weeks. If the kittens feces is runny, remove the skin, increase bone and feed more than 3 times (smaller meals more often). If the stools are too hard, decrease bone.
After a couple of weeks, slowly introduce another meat such as beef or pork, deer or rabbit. After a couple of more weeks after that, introduce a third meat. Then slowly introduce some liver. A bite or two.

At the end, you want to aim for APPROXIMATELY 80 percent meat, 10 percent bone and 10 percent organ, half of which is liver. The other half is a secreting organ such as kidney, brain or glands. Heart is fed as a muscle meat. I warn against feeding heart too soon because it is very rich. My cats LOVE it, but it is rich.

Raw feeding is not an exact science. You do not need a perfect ratio every day. You do not need to feed the exact amounts every day. The goal of raw feeding is to have a balance over time. You, yourself, do not get all the nutrients your body requires every single day. You do it over time. The same holds true in feeding raw.

When feeding raw, expect less drinking and less stool. The ideal stool is firm and dries out within a couple of days. If it is large, smelly or runny, you need to reevalutate what you're feeding. I've made the mistake of feeding too much organ meat only to have runny stools. I went back and increased the bone content and it cleared it up.

I encourage you to feed your kittens raw. As young as they are, they will take right to it. You will have less vet bills in the long run as raw fed pets do typically tend to be healthier.

Good luck!

[catinthemirror]

Unfortunately I consider all the foods you listed as not having very good ingredients. Poor quality food contains a lot of cheap fillers (grains, by-products) to keep costs down for the company that makes it, and these ingredients can definitely be causing the smelly issues you're having. You have to read the ingredients list on the pet food you buy to really know its quality. You want the first few ingredients to be meat ingredients, and for there to be little or no grain in the food, for starters.

I'm assuming that the dry food you mentioned is Purina Pro Plan Chicken and Rice Adult? (Sorry if that's wrong, that's the closest thing I could find on their website.) If so, the ingredients for this food are:

Chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, poultry by-product meal, dried egg product, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), wheat flour, fish meal, soy protein isolate, animal liver flavor, brewers dried yeast, inulin, potassium chloride, phosphoric acid, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, salt, choline chloride, Vitamin E supplement, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), manganese sulfate, calcium carbonate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.

The stuff I've highlighted in red are all things I wouldn't want my cats to eat. The brewers rice, corn gluten, wheat flour and soy are all grains. Cats don't need grain in their diets. Their bodies have a hard time processing it, which can cause digestive upsets, vomiting, gas, smelly stool, allergies, etc, etc. I'd bet you almost anything that switching them a grain-free food, or even just a food with a lot LESS grain, will go a long way to helping with the odor problems. Of course if you're going grain-free you've got to do the same with the wet food to see any benefit. Grain-free foods are likely to be more expensive, but high quality foods contain a lot less fillers - so your cats will probably need to eat less! It's the difference between us eating a candy bar and eating an apple - one will definitely keep you full a lot longer than the other.

As for the menadione sodium bisulfite (also sometimes listed as vitamin K3), I personally would never feed it to my pets. From the Wikipedia article on menadione: "Large doses of menadione have been reported to cause adverse outcomes including hemolytic anemia due to G6PD deficiency, neonatal brain or liver damage, or neonatal death in some rare cases. In the United States, menadione supplements are banned by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) because of their potential toxicity."

If you go to PetSmart for your pet food I know they carry a brand called Wellness, which I consider pretty good quality.Wellness has a grain-free line called Wellness Core. PetSmart also carries Blue Buffalo, which has a grain-free line of kibble called Wilderness. If you go back the the Health and Nutrition section on this forum you can read through the sticky on why wet food is better than kibble - but it sounds like you feed both, which is better than no wet food!

You should also investigate any independently owned pet supply stores in your area. From my experience they often have a much larger variety, and better prices than big chain stores. Some independent pet food stores also carry frozen commercial raw food.

Honestly the first thing I'd suggest is getting your cats onto a better quality food instead of jumping right into raw, especially if you're confused about it right now. Ask lots of questions and do lots of research first. My two cats are on raw, and they're doing really well on it. However it involves a fair amount of prep work, and you can't feed kibble if you're feeding raw. If you do decide to go raw the people here will gladly help you out, but until then it might be best to take baby steps and get your guys eating healthier food first. Of course it's up to you, and I hope you're able to find whatever solution works for you and your cats.

Good luck

[noladeb]

Wow - my eyes have really been opened - I had no idea about the grains and foods! Thank you SO much for the info. I'm definitely switching brands of cat food now. Love this forum!

Thank you again!

[~Siameseifuplz~]

I agree, the fillers in those foods are likely the culprits! Petco has some more choices of good brands than petsmart does so I'd look there if you don't have any smaller stores, but I bet you do and just don't know it! If you go the websites of some of the good brands they should have a place where you can search for stores that carry the brand in your area. I know petco has Innova, Blue Buffalo, Holistic select (Dry food isn't very good but the wet is fine), wellness, nature's variety, and Merrick. I really don't like any dry foods, go with whatever seems to have fewest carbs (grains, potatoes), generally grain free foods are lowest in carbs but not always, some of the crappy brands are coming out with grain frees that are still more potato than meat. Nature's Variety Instinct, Blue Buffalo Wilderness, and Wellness Core come to mind as some grain free ones they likely have. Regular wellness also has grain free varieties of wet food (but core is the only grain free dry food I believe). But small independent stores will give you even more options.

[Auntie Crazy]

Hi, Noladeb!

Good golly, I'm glad you're getting your kittens off that kibble; it's awful "food" to begin with and there are currently many concerns around Purina's kibbles specifically. Bleckkkkkk....

If you want to feed canned, look for products that are no- to low-carb (i.e. no or low grains, fruits and vegetables) and have a high percentage of a named meat (i.e. "turkey" instead of "poultry"). Nature's Logic, Wellness, Natural Balance and Felidae all have grain-free varieties, and Nature's Variety Instincts and Evo 95% meat products are all grain-free. A "grain-free canned cat" search on petfooddirect.com will yield a veritable cornucopia of options, and you can conduct a side-by-side analysis of the ingredients and nutritional profiles.

I'd also recommend feeding your kitties a rotation of foods; this will keep them from becoming fixated on any one product (a problem if they change or stop producing it) and protect them from potential quality control issues by diluting their impact. Since cats can develop hypersensitivity when continually exposed to the same proteins or ingredients for extended periods, it will also help prevent food intolerance issues (and the associated diarrhea and vomiting).

Dr. Hofve has a great article with even more reasons for rotating foods: Switching Foods.

However, like Beth, I recommend raw feeding. You can either purchase a commercial brand (look for one with limited additives and no fruits and veggies), or you can home-prepare your cats' foods (see CatCentric.org for more info).

Congrats on your new little puff-ball family members!!!

AC

[noladeb]

I'm happy to say that I've purchased Blue Buffalo Wilderness (Kitten) and Natural Choice food as well. I have both dry and wet in Blue Buffalo and all wet in Natural Choice and am starting to make the switch over this week.

My question is this though.. just to clarify...

I see that Natural Choice has the following "rice" ingredients:

Beef Broth, Beef, Chicken, Chicken Liver, Turkey, Beef Liver, Ground Rice, Cod, Natural Flavors, Rice Bran, Tricalcium Phosphate, Guar Gum, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Carrageenan, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Sodium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid.

And Blue Wildnerness has the following potatoe ingredients:

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Potato Starch, Fish Meal (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Fish Oil (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Potatoes, Peas, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Flaxseed (source of Omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids), Natural Chicken Flavor, Sunflower Oil (source of Omega 6 Fatty Acids), Alfalfa Meal, Whole Carrots, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Cranberries, Blueberries, Barley Grass, Dried Parsley, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Carnitine, L-Lysine, Turmeric, Oil of Rosemary, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacin (Vitamin B3), d-Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Biotin (Vitamin B7), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Choline Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Salt, Caramel, Potassium Chloride, Dried Yeast (source of Saccharomyces cerevisiae), Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Dried Bacillus subtilis fermentation product, Dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

Are these still ok foods to feed?

[catinthemirror]

What you have now are foods with limited grain content (just rice, instead of rice and corn and wheat and soy). In my opinion this is a much better food. Way less grains, way more meat! If your cats are super sensitive to grains they might still have problems digesting the rice in Natural Choice, but since rice ingredients are only the seventh and ninth ingredients there is a lot less of it in this food compared to the other food. And the first ingredients are all meat ingredients - which is GREAT! Meat is highly digestible for cats, as it's what they're meant to eat. So I think they should have a much easier time digesting this food.

As for the potato in the other food, if that's kibble then a certain amount of carbohydrates are needed in order to form the little pellets. I didn't have any problem when my cats were eating Go! Natural kibble last year (which also contains potato). And again, the potato comes after four different sources of meat, which is exactly what you want to see. Hopefully your cats find this food just as tasty as the old food, and you have an easy time transitioning them

And if you ever need help with the transition, or want more info on raw, you know where to ask! Good Luck!