Picky cats need help with food, litterbox & weight issues

[Penguin_Dreams]

I’ve been (trying) to transition my two furballs, Diva and Dopey, over to raw food for about a month now and it’s had its ups and downs so I was hoping to get a little encouragement and maybe some suggestions and information here. I’ve had the little darlings for 6 years now, and just within the past year they’ve become very unsatisfied with the all the foods I’ve tried. They’ll get a little excited about something new for a couple months and then they’re very unenthusiastic. I had been free-feeding kibble and a breakfast of wet food and Diva particularly shows
a strong preference for the kibble. (I know, I'm a horrible mom. I didn't know any better at the time. I've learned better since then.)

The kibble has been taken away now and I started mixing some raw food into the wet food (AvoDerm - which BTW, whose idea was it to make cat food out a fruit known to be mostly toxic to cats?? Again, I've learned better since then.) and it seemed to be going really well at first. They were really excited about meal time again and even started picking around the canned food in favor of the raw. When I ran out of canned food about a week in, I gave them just the raw. I was using Bravo frozen pattys and they were pretty cool with that for a few days and then they started turning up their noses at it. By that time it was time to get more food anyway so I tried a Blue Ridge beef grind and added the supplements to it. Suddenly meal time was exciting again! But I noticed that contrary to what the pet store person told me, it was only muscle meat, no organs or bone, so I went back and picked up a Bravo chicken grind that has those things (as well as vegetables – I have no idea why they put that in there) did the supplement thing and proudly served up my kitties a delicious and nutritious meal made with love. They turned their noses up and walked away.

The girl, Diva, really misses her kibble, I think. She loved that stuff and grazed all day, just small bites here and there. She’s also very delicate and is prone to vomiting when I change her diet, diarrhea when she's stressed, or sometimes both because it's a day that ends in a Y. She hacks up a hairball at least once a month, sometimes more especially during pollen season, she forgets to be hungry sometimes and she's always been too skinny. I've used a new pet sitter recently for when I go out of town and she suggested that Diva might have hyperthyroidism, possibly allergies to pollen, and definitely shouldn’t be getting hairballs so frequently. She’s never been a big feeder, she’s only 6 lbs to her brother’s 13 lbs,and she’s been having litterbox problems for the past 3 or 4 months. In fact, she’s the one who prompted this experiment with raw while I was trying to figure out how to help her. She doesn't want to use it for pooping anymore, especially if it's not completely clean. Most of the time she uses the bathtub which I guess isn't the worst place, but it's odd that she'd start doing this now unless there was something irritating her. Dopey is healthy, hearty, and usually pretty non-picky about what he eats. For him to just walk away from a food bowl is extremely unusual, even if he isn’t really excited about what’s in it.

This past week, both of them went about 5 days without leaving a deposit in the litterbox. They both finally pooped. (Yay! I've never been so happy to see a cat poop.) They don’t show any other signs of being constipated but I was really worried, especially for Diva. She hasn't had a hairball all month which normally I'd be thrilled about, but going that long without a BM, I was wondering if there's a blockage in her stomach or intestines and where is all that hair going if it's not coming out either end? Still a little worried about that, actually. However, I was thrilled that when she finally did go, she used the litterbox. I’ve added a bit of pumpkin to their meals but now they’re not eating it. Actually, they’re now pretty excited if I get out the emergency pouches of Wellness that just a few months ago they decided they hated. It’s the only way I can get them to eat as both seem pretty fine with starving themselves rather than eating the raw stuff. What I really don’t get though, is that they had been eating it, they look interested while I'm preparing it, and will still lick it off a spoon or my finger. So what’s different about their bowl? How do I get them to eat? I know they're hungry because they beg for food and get all eager until I put it down and they sniff a bit, maybe take a lick or two and then leave. I’ve tried putting some Vitakitty treats on it which is like kitty crack for them and that worked last week but it’s not working now.

On the recommendation of my pet sitter I've found a vet who might be able to help and made an appointment with her for next weekend. Now just I want to make sure they survive the week and know what I should be telling her once we get there. I don't know this vet and have no idea how she'll react to a raw food diet and honestly, I'm a little worried she'll say the not eating and pooping thing is due to the raw diet and discourage me from pursuing it. But I know this is the right choice... if only I can get my cats to agree and get some assurance that they're getting everything they need. If you made it through this wall of text, any advice or tips or just some encouragement would be very much appreciated.

[Penguin_Dreams]

This is the picture that convinced me I had to have these guys. Just two little 11 week old kittens hoping for a forever home.


This is Diva. She's my official box and bag inspector.


And here's Dopey cuddling with his sister. This is an older pic, he's filled out a bit since then. Sorry, I'm not good with cameras so I don't have a lot of pictures of them. At least not ones that are sort of in focus and have lighting that isn't all shadows and bright spots.

[minikin44]

They are both gorgeous babies! I don't really have any advice, but I wish you the best and I'm sure you'll get great advice from other people on here.

[Penguin_Dreams]

Thanks. ^_^ I may be a bit biased but I think they're they're pretty darn adorable.

[Penguin_Dreams]

Sorry, was that just too long? I've got a couple of other questions, I'll try to keep this shorter.

I know that going completely without food for a 18-24 period is bad for their kidneys, but how little can they get away with? I just fed them and Diva ate maybe 2 oz of food. Dopey would not eat from the bowl, but I sat down with a spoon and he licked about 3 spoonfuls before walking away. Dopey could stand to lose at least a pound so I'm not worried about him wasting away but I do worry about his digestive system.

Over the weekend they were into the beef and were enjoying that. However, it's only beef, there's no bone or organ. I add the supplements based on this recipe, but cut in half for a 2 lb chub. But is that a complete meal? I'm concerned that they're not getting everything they need and wonder if it would be okay to feed that for breakfast when I don't have time to spoon-feed the boy, and do the other for dinner so Mr. Picky can be catered to. The pet food store is supposed to be looking into ordering turkey for me. Once they get that in, I'll see if the little darlings like that better than chicken. At least for this week. I get the impression from reading a few threads on here that lots of cats want a rotation of meats.

[catinthemirror]

Your cats are adorable

I don't use commercial raw for my cats (I do homemade prey model), but I'll see if there's any advice I can give you anyway. Hopefully someone who feeds commercial raw will chime in soon

Usually if cats are constipated on a raw diet it's because they're getting too much bone. It's suggested that bone make up about 7-10% of their diet, so check the percent of bone in whatever raw your buying. Bone is much cheaper than meat, so I think some companies can be tempted to add more of it to their formulas. If there's more than 10% bone in what you're feeding them you should add some plain meat to their diet to help even things out.

I think using hunger to get them to try new things is fine, but you're right that you can't make them go without food for too long. If they're only eating 2oz a day I'd be concerned. They need more food than that, even if you have to go back to mixing raw with the canned to keep them interested in eating. If you're having trouble with getting food into them in the mornings you could always do canned food in the morning, and then raw in the evening. I did that when I first started, and I think several people on here feed their cats part canned and part raw.

You can also try bribes when they seem uninterested in their raw food. Tuna or clam juice, Parmesan cheese or treats sprinkled over the food... The first few months my cats were switching to raw I sprinkled a crushed up Temptations treat (aka kitty crack) over their meals whenever they were hesitant to start eating. It didn't take long before I was using just half a treat each, then a quarter each, then I would just hold my hand over their food and PRETEND to sprinkle something and they would both tuck in! I think if you have a kibble addict two or three pieces of kibble could be a successful bribe too.

Anyway good luck with the transition! My Sassy is an older cat and she was rather difficult to transition to raw - but it was so so worth it. She was always underweight and since being on raw she's put on some weight and even some MUSCLE, she's more energetic, and her joints bother her much less. But it took a couple months and a lot of bribery to get her eating 100% raw consistently.

[librarychick]

The general percentages to shoot for are: 80% muscle meat such as heart or cuts that we would eat, tongue, ect; 10% bone but TBH mine do fine with a little more, some people's cats need less, go by how hard the bowel movements are; 5% liver, 5% other secreting organ, like speen, kidney, ect.

Most commercial raw isn't anywhere near these percentages. They are usually marketed towards dogs who IME have a heartier system and can tolerate variations much better. Cats do better with less bone, more muscle meat. I think it's actually a GOOD idea to feed them some meals without bone and organ, especially if they seem a bit constipated.

All that being said, it is a transition. Some cats just take time for their bodies to adjust to the food.

Some tricks to get them to eats it are quite simple, my favorite (and something I do to all the commercial raw my cats eat) is add hot tap water and mix it in until there's no 'sauce' left. I add about 1 Tbsp at a time, and mix until it's combined. I don't know why but most of the commercial raw I get has very little liquid in it, which can contribute to constipation of course!

The only exception I have found is the company I buy the majority of my cat's meals from and they make sure to add the 'juices' that come with the meat. IMO the cats need that stuff!

If adding a little water doesn't work try making a sort of raw food pablum, so it's like very thick soup, generally between the heat of the water bringing out the smell of the meat and the thinner texture they'll be much more likely to at least try it.

Another good trick is to use chicken breast and just barely sear it in a pan (Not a microwave!) then chop it up into tiny pieces and see if they'll eat that. Once they're eating some of it you can gradually sear it less and less until it's completely raw, and cut it less and less to they're eating larger chunks.

I don't know if you're aware of it, but one of the main benefits of feeding raw is the satisfaction they get from really chewing their food. My kitties LOVE their bone-in meals and chunks of meat. They love to gnaw at their hunks of heart and they usually purr or make other happy-kitty sounds while they do. You have to work them up to it, but aside from the mental benefit of chewing they need to do this to help clean their teeth. Chewing kibble doesn't clean their teeth, in fact the crumbs of kibble get stuck in their teeth and can cause problems, chewing raw keeps their teeth healthy.

[Penguin_Dreams]

Thanks librarychick! I get a frozen grind and the percentages seem about right and the meat handling on my part is pretty minimal so that works much better for me. I tried giving them a chicken neck as a treat but they had no idea what to do with it even after I cut it up into little chunks. They don't seem thrilled with chewing their food and I'm not really looking to do a prey model. Mostly, because I'm not willing to deal with hearts, livers, and gizzards. I've heard the bones are great for cleaning teeth, but at the moment they're not quite up for that. One of the things we're seeing the vet about this weekend is a pre-dental check to see if they need a cleaning. I have noticed a tiny bit of plaque build-up and definitely don't want that to get out of hand.

We had slightly better success today though. I got them a few cans of EVO and that's what they get for breakfast so at least I know they're getting at least one substantial meal. I wish it was a better mix of things they actually need and less of just filler stuff, but this is what they'll eat without me having to babysit them. For dinner I bought some freeze-dried beef liver and crumbled up a couple cubes to sprinkle on top of the raw food. I got them a turkey grind this week since they seemed to be fed up with the chicken and I think they like that even less than the chicken, but Diva dove right in and ate about a third of what she should have in a day. Dopey was very interested in the liver sprinkles but every time he got a lick of turkey he looked offended, like he'd been tricked. However, he did manage to eat a substantial dinner. I've also heard parmesan cheese works? He'll probably get wise to the liver crumble trick and then I'll see if the cheese can tempt him again. I'm still playing with the amount of water they seem to prefer. No conclusions on that yet, but both of them have pooped twice this week and it looked pretty good. I mean... y'know... for poop. But you add it right before you feed? That's interesting. The grind I get is also pretty dry and I've been adding water to the whole thing, along with the supplements, before sticking it in the freezer in individual serving sizes. I'll try it your way with the next chub.

There seem to be a lot of benefits to raw food, especially for Diva. She's more playful, more aggressive when she's "hunting" her thing-on-a-string, she's filling out and I can barely feel her spine anymore, she's more affectionate, and there still hasn't been a single hairball. Seeing that change in her is the one thing that makes me continue to pursue this even though it's a huge hassle and I feel like I'm floundering around in the dark most of the time. Again, thanks so much!

[hoofmaiden]

Chicken necks are a LOT of bone for a cat. Cats do better with quail or cornish hen for bone-in meat. And yes, it takes some work to introduce cats to whole prey or prey model raw. This is b/c they have spent their whole lives eating food that requires zero work on their part, so their jaw muscles are weak. Persevere and they WILL catch on!

This is a great website that explains it all. There is also a great page on transitioning (Practical Guide): Raw Fed Cats

[Penguin_Dreams]

It was a lot of bone for my poor knife too! But even after I separated the meat from the bone into bite-sized pieces they still wouldn't eat it. I can barely even get them to eat the grind slurry. The last thing I want to do is have animals be slaughtered on behalf of my picky kitties who turn their noses up at it and it ends up going to waste. Also, I could only do it as a treat because, again, I'm not willing to handle the bloody, stinky parts that comes already ground up in the chubs. My cats clearly have their limits and I have mine.

They were pretty interested in a cut of fish I got them and though, and thought that was a pretty nice treat, but then I learned more about why feeding raw fish is bad. They do sell small wings (probably chicken, but I'm not sure) from humane sources at the Whole Foods here, but I've had concerns about would they eat it and how fresh is it. Would that be less bone and is it safe? If I lightly cook it like librarychick suggested, is the bone still okay to feed or should I cut off the meat? And finally, if I did that, can I just put it in a pan on the range or would it be better to bake it? I don't know much about cooking meat. Thanks hoofmaiden!