Chocolate Tabby - Cat Forum : Cat Discussion Forums
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Chocolate Tabby

I am lucky enough to have a male chocolate tabby. (This is a rare double recessive in 2 traits for coat color)
I am interested in finding a female to breed him with (preferrably in the DFW area in Texas).

Does anyone have any information regarding chocolate tabbies? He is pure brown with very faint almost invisible tabby rings. My vet advised I not neuter him because of the rarity of the color. I understand it is common among Burmese, but he is definitely not Burmese.

He came as a surprise litter from a stray we took into the house. She is a lilac tabby (brown, but diluted.. She must have been b/b and D/d; cursing myself for having her spayed now!)

Have had a great deal of difficulty finding any other cats like him. I wonder how much kittens should sell for also, if I did manage to obtain a female to breed with him.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 06:33 PM
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I'm very curious of what country you live in. I can't imagine any responsible veterinarian in the US suggesting you leave an unregistered cat to procreate at random.....

There are enough kittens in the world euthanized every single day because homes cannot be found for them all. Your cat is an interesting color and that's great, but it's no reason to act irresponsibly and breed MORE kittens to dump into the system. You say he's definitely NOT Burmese which makes me think he's not any particular breed. Unless he's papered from a reputable breeder and you plan on finding a papered queen of the SAME breed with the intention if improving the breed, then forego your money making venture.

For every one that IS born that interesting color how many will be born that are not, are those just going to be tossd away? Give away and left to procreate MORE kittens that will be put to sleep? Also, you have NO idea what genetic defects might accompany that recessive trait or be contained in your cat.

Your cat isn't a walking money machine for you to raise cash. Act responsibly and neuter him.

Last edited by MowMow; 06-13-2015 at 06:36 PM.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 06:56 PM
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Unless you have papers, you couldn't ethically sell the kittens.

It's a GOOD thing that you spayed the mother.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MowMow View Post
Your cat isn't a walking money machine for you to raise cash. Act responsibly and neuter him.
I second that. Forget the kittens. Really.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 10:54 PM
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I would have to agree with the other posts. Even purebred, highly sought after cats end up dumped in shelters, rescues, etc and unwanted. Although your cat's coloring may be rare, there's no guarantee the kittens will be - and even if they are, no guarantee the person looking to get a cat will even care. The kittens will not be registered, no health history/guarantee on the family line's genetics, have no indication of any special coloring or breed... and you're curious about the amount you can sell them for? Most shelters, rescues, people, etc have difficulty finding homes PERIOD for kittens. If all you care about is money and continuing this rare coloring (with NO guarantee it will be passed down to kittens), PLEASE get your cat neutered.

I would just appreciate your cat for his unique color instead of feeling the need to breed him and make money.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 11:50 PM
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It is extremely difficult to develop a new breed of cat, and is a big rigamarole to go through. It must be bred through several generations to develop a unique and healthy cat that will be an asset to the cat fancy.
New Breeds and Colors

There are already chocolate cats, e.g. Burmese, and the Havana Brown.

What you may in fact have is a Havana Brown mix, kittens and young Havanas have ghost tabby markings that fade out in a mature cat.
Breed Profile: The Havana Brown


Suggest you just enjoy your cat. You could enter it in a HHP=Household Pet Class at a cat shows to let the judges and the public see it.

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in avatar. "Always in my heart."

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-14-2015, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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I'm sorry. Did I post under the wrong forum? This is the breeding forum, right? People do breed cats. I was advised by a veterinarian. Yes in the states. He is an indoor cat, and has no opportunity to procreate. He only would under my control.
I came to this forum for advice on breeding him to cultivate this color/breed combination, and yes to get information on selling the kittens. Your judgements are not appropriate nor helpful.
If there is a market and I have genetic testing done, I do not understand any ethical issues with breeding and selling kittens to happy homes. I'm not suggesting an animal mill here. If there is some law I would be breaking in the united States, that would definitely be useful information.
Initially, I was thinking to find females to stud him out to. With appropriate paperwork. I am also interested to know what appropriate paperwork needs to be done and made available. Breed tests? Coat color test obviously.. Maybe gene testing on the mother as well?
Again, please only respond if you have some information about chocolate tabbies or information regarding genetic testing, breeding papers, and etc. I will not be neutering him at the moment. Recall I had him at the vet to have exactly that done when she stopped me and advised me to investigate this. Which is what I am doing.
What I have found is his coat color is recessive. Meaning if I found another like him, the color would breed true, 100%.
Possibly some cinnamon, dependng, but from what I understand gene testing would answer this one way or the other. Does anyone have more knowledge about this?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-14-2015, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you catloverami for addressing my questions and providing information. He does look like the Havana Browns. It would be helpful to know if he is a Havana mix. Can gene testing tell me?
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-14-2015, 03:14 AM
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No, genetic testing doesn't work with cats like it does with dogs. You have a brown cat. That's not a breed and no responsible owner of a purebred cat (or any other) will breed with your cat because there's no point. You don't have papers on him so you can't sell "pretty brown kitties" and try to pass them off as anything other than kittens of a kitten of a stray cat.

Yes, this is the breeding thread, but if you read through it, it's mostly to help people who have taken in pregnant strays and need help with the mom and kittens. Or actual, registered breeders. Of purebred cats.

And the vet that stopped you from fixing him is an irresponsible [fill in the blank].

And yes you are suggesting an animal mill, or at least becoming a BYB, which again, nobody here will help you with.

Get your cat fixed, enjoy him for what he is, and, as was suggested, show him as a housecat if you want to show him off.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-14-2015, 11:17 AM
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Even if the genetic test could tell you the possible breed cross, he's a cross. Not a purebred, therefore not breeding material.

No, you would not be a kitten mill. You would be a backyard breeder using his cat to earn a buck.

Yes, this forum is for breeders. Ethical and moral breeders who research, study genetics, and slave to improve the breed of cats they love so much for the purpose of keeping their bloodlines strong and intact.. We don't have any hunting for an unregistered male cat to breed 'Neato colored' kittens whose sole purpose is to make a selfish human some money.

This type of backyard breeding is what every ethical breeder of cats (and dogs) stands against.

As for your 'vet', she needs to be reported to the stats's veterinary board for her ethics.
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