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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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hard drive questions

I purchased an internal 80 GB hard drive to add to my Mac G4 a few months back, and today we finally sat down to install it and the new 512 MB RAM.

Evidently I don't have a PCI 133 card (I thought I did), and my wonderful local stores do not have one. We have to wait until Monday to check the campus computer store or order one.

Anyway, my original 10 GB drive will be made the slave drive, and the new 80 GB drive the master. I will also be updating to Panther (Mac OS 10.3).

Question: Will my OS need to be installed on both drives or just the master?

Also, this is my first time mounting a hard drive (done). Once we get the new PCI card, what will I need to do next? The drive only came with instructions for Windows even though it's Mac compatible.

Tina


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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 06:37 PM
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the OS can be on either drive, but your system will run faster if it's on the master. are you sure your 10 GB drive will work with the PC133 card? HDDs are generally downward compatible (that's why I don't know why it didn't work with your existing PCI), but they are not upward compatible.

As far as installing the card, I don't have any experience with OS X+, because I had to give up my Mac--can't afford to support 2 platforms, but I think it should work out of the box. The motherboard should recognize it.

I don't guarantee either of my answers because, like I said, my experience is kind of out-of-date. Is there a Mac forum they might be able to help you?
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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So I might need to get a PCI 100 instead? I'm not sure how to find that out.

Here are the specs on my system.

We had the 2 drives connected, but my computer wouldn't recognize anything.

Tina


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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 08:37 PM
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Did you change the jumpers, so that the new drive is set as "master" and the old one is set to "slave"?

The harddrive manufacturers should have information on how to set their harddrives to master vs slave. Check their web-sites.

Your new harddrive will probably be a faster drive than the old one, so you should install the system on the fastest drive (you'll notice more speed performance that way). You don't need to have a system installed on both drives, are they set correctly as master and slave, they will mount without a problem.

Some harddrives need to be formatted by a special software (not very common nowdays, but it could be the case here), so before you put the larger harddrive as a master, put it first as a slave, make sure it mounts and reformat it from Mac OS and the HFS+ (if it's possible to format from the Mac OS - if not check the manufacturers website to find what software you need).

If the drive mounts (and you should always reformat a new drive, just to be sure nothing happend in the factory), you can now set the drives as master and slave (i.e. switch which one's going to be master and slave). Then just pop in the CD with OS 10.3 and install on the new drive.

You *can* move the system you have on your old drive, but it's always best to start from scratch, and since you'll be using your old drive, you can access the files you need on it anyway.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 08:40 PM
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I see your built-in HDD interface is an ATA-66. When you installed your new PCI card, did you switch the 10GB HDD to the PCI card or leave it as is? I think the way I'd do it is leave it as is, and connect only the new 80GB HDD to the PCI card. Leave both drives set to "Master", as they're on different buses. After you mount both drives (or, I should say, IF you can), you might have to first initialize the new drive. Then, copy the System folder to the new HDD, along with the folder called System Applications (if I remember correctly), then as I recall, there's a control panel that lets you designate the active System folder.

Again, I'm no Mac expert, I've been away from it for too long, and don't know OS X, but you won't hurt anything if you try the above configuration.

Oops, rereading your original post, I see you don't have a PCI card, yet. Sigh.....

Well, that's how I'd do it if I did have one! And I think a PCI 100, based on your system memory is PC100.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 08:43 PM
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OK, Cyberpet posted same time as I did with conflicting advice. Really, I'm not the expert, I'm shooting in the dark based on outdated knowledge.

Isn't there a Mac forum, or is it they're not answering questions there?
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 08:49 PM
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Lets not get confused here... a PCI-card is a card you install in one of the card slots on the computer, to for instance add firewire ports, or a second graphics card etc.

PC 133 (which I'm recalling was mention above) is a memory chip and used in newer models, PC 100 is an older memory chip. Most newer computers *can* use the PC 100 memory chips as well as the PC 133 chips, but not all old Mac's can use the PC 133 memory chips. So as I get it, that's what needs to be replaced, the memory chip that was planned to be added was "too modern" and needs to be a PC 100 memory chip. (The PC 133 is a faster memory chip than the PC 100)

Am I on the right track or not?

Addition: yes, there's several Mac forums.... I can list a few.

http://www.techsurvivors.net
http://www.macfixitforums.com
http://forums.macnn.com
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 08:52 PM
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no--she's asking about the speed at which the PCI card runs...there are 100 MHz cards (pretty old) and faster....I think the latest is 400 something.

the PCI card speed should equal or exceed the speed at which the motherboard's PCI bus runs. I don't know what that is on the G4 Mac, but because the specs showed it has 100 MHz memory, I'm assuming the PCI bus runs at the same speed.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-08-2005, 09:11 PM
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Actually, I still think it's the RAM slots we're talking about... since there was talk about installing a 512 MB RAM chip.

The specs for that model of G4 states PC100 DIMM.

The PCI-port is a SCSI device (and as far as I know, no Mac's has used Ultra SCSI).

Apparently, (as far as I can tell from the specs) you can either install an ATA-harddrive or a SCSI harddrive (since the computer does have an internal SCSI chain). So depending a bit on what type of drive you purchased (the 80 gig) and what type is installed, there's different ways.

On a SCSI harddrive you set diffrent internal "addresses" (ranging from 0 to 7) and on an ATA drive you set the jumpers to master and slave. Usually there's a diagram also on the back of the harddrive (which you connect with the harddrive cable) how to set the jumpers. I think there's like 4 choices, master, slave, cable and something else (none or whatever, was ages ago I installed a harddrive in a stationary Mac).

Anyway... to know what manufacturer it is on your internal harddrive (if there's no diagram on that to tell you how to set master/slave or scsi address) you can find that out by going under the Apple menu "About this Mac". It'll give you different views depending on what version of Mac OS you use, but there should be a hardware specification stating what manufacturer it is that made the different drives installed (harddrive, CD, graphics card, etc).

Addition: the "About this Mac" should also state if the 10 GB harddrive is an ATA or a SCSI harddrive.

I know, all this technical mumbo jumbo is confusing, and there's even more mumbo jumbo, if the installation of the harddrive doesn't work right away. Some harddrives might also need to have the right speed set to them to work... oh well... maybe it's best to have an Apple techncian to do the installation (even if a regular PC techncian could do the work as well, just as he/she have the manual for the computer so he knows what buttons to push.... )
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