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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Yet another 9/11 thread

Labelled clearly for easy aversion. Believe it or not, I'm not looking for a big discussion on this. I simply don't know enough. I just want to put this out there.

(Yes, I know we will be tempted to issue rallying cries about the liberal media and conspiracy theories and patriotism - and you're welcome to sound off. Everyone is welcome to read and form their own opinions.)

Step one, Mark Morford's column in the SF Gate.

Quote:
Here it is: an absolutely exceptional inside scoop on the white-hot world of Sept. 11 conspiracy theories, writ large and smart by Mark Jacobson over at New York magazine, and it's mandatory reading for anyone and everyone who's ever entertained the nagging thought that something -- or rather, far more than one something -- is deeply wrong with the official line on what actually happened on Sept. 11.

See, it is very likely that you already know that Sept. 11 will go down in the conspiracy history books as a far more sinister affair than, say, the murky swirl of the Kennedy assassination. You probably already know that much of what exactly happened on Sept. 11 remains deeply unsettling and largely unsolved -- or to put another way, if you don't know all of this and if you fully and blithely accept the official Sept. 11 story, well, you haven't been paying close enough attention.

...

You have to sift and sort. There are disturbing questions about collapse speeds and controlled demolitions and why the towers fell when the all-steel infrastructure was designed to easily withstand the temperatures of any sort of fire, even burning jet fuel. There are questions of the mysterious, media-documented blasts deep in the WTC towers that took place after the planes hit. There are questions of why there was such a short-selling spree on shares of American Airlines and United Air Lines the day before the attack, huge doubts about the failures of NORAD and the FAA, the bizarre case of the missing plane in the Pentagon crash, and also the downing of Flight 93 where, according to the coroner, no blood or major plane wreckage was actually found. There is, ultimately, the stunning failure of the entire multi-trillion-dollar American air-defense system. Just for starters.

There is also the very big question of what happened to 7 WTC, the only building not hit by anything at all, but which collapsed anyway, in a perfect controlled-demolition sort of way, for no reason anyone can sufficiently explain. But which just so happened to contain vital offices for the IRS, the Department of Defense, the CIA, the Secret Service, the Securities and Exchange Commission and more.
Step two, follow his link to Mark Jacobson's compilation.

I would summarise, but there's too much here. Nevertheless, it's a handy-dandy reference, much of which I cannot refute. The people who could with any amount of authority probably don't read this board. Which is okay with me, really.

Please feel free to peruse and comment. I probably won't have much else to say, because as I said, I simply don't know enough about it. I have to stress, though, that without reading this entire piece it will be terribly hard to rebut. I recommend reading it entirely, rather than making assumptions about its content.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 07:28 PM
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ooh, nice articles. here's something a friend sent to me this morning

It could be a forced coincidence, but in any case this is interesting.

You decide for yourself:

1) New York City has 11 letters.

2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.

3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.

4) George W. Bush has 11 letters.

This could be a mere coincidence... (Could it be?)

Now here is what is interesting...



1) New York is the State # 11.

2) The first plane crushing against the Twin Towers was flight #11.

3) The plane hit the 47th story, adding this gives 4+7 = 11.

3) Flight # 11 was carrying 92 passengers, adding this gives 9+2 = 11.

4) Flight # 77 who also hit the towers was carrying 65 passengers, adding this gives 6+5 = 11.

5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11, adding this gives 9+1+1 = 11

6) The date is equal to the emergency number 911, adding this gives 9+1+1 = 11



Now we have a very upsetting piece:


1) The total number of victims inside the planes is 254, so 2+5+4 = 11

2) The day September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year, so 2+5+4 = 11

3) After September 11, there are 111 days more to the end of the year.

4) The tragedy of 3/11/2004 in Madrid also adds to 3+1+1+2+4 = 11.

5) The tragedy in Madrid happened 911 days after the tragedy of the Twin Towers.


Spooky!!

Read on.....! This is really eerie This is something to think about!

Since America is typically represented by an Eagle.

Saddam and Bin Laden should have read up on their Muslim passages...



The following verse is from the Koran, (the Islamic Bible)

Koran (9:11)

For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle.
The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, While some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced;
For the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; and there was peace.


(Note the verse number!)
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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Actually, Cassandra, it seems to me that the verse in question doesn't exist at all. Most Americans wouldn't bother to check, but a friend of mine did.

An interesting email in its own right, but that part isn't true.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 08:11 PM
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Haven't read the link for your thread yet but to nip what Cassandra posted in the bud...

from Snopes....... http://www.snopes.com/rumors/elevens.asp

Quote:
Claim: Significance can be found in numbers relating to the September 11 terrorist attacks on the U.S.

Status: False.

Example: [Collected via e-mail, 2001]

The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11
September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11
After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.
119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11
Twin Towers — standing side by side, looks like the number 11
The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11
But ....There's More.......
State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union
New York City — 11 Letters
Afghanistan — 11 Letters
The Pentagon — 11 Letters
Ramzi Yousef — 11 Letters (convicted of orchestrating the attack on the WTC in 1993)
Flight 11 — 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11
Flight 77 — 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11


Origins: It is but human nature to search for patterns even where none exist. We attempt to impose a gestalt on randomness because chaos is difficult to comprehend, hence our fascination with recurrent themes. We feel something of great import is going on if a particular number comes up time and again, and we are unsettled by
it.

And yet, it's all randomness. That is not to say that at times any number plucked from the air will not appear more often than is the norm because such clumpings are only an expected part of the process of random distribution. Even though a flipped coin comes up heads five hundred times out of a thousand, it does not follow that each 'head' occurrence is immediately followed by a 'tails' — inevitably during a run of a thousand trials, there will be moments wherein the 'tails' tally varies significantly from the 'heads' count. Clumping can and does occur, and random numbers seemingly appear more often at various moments in time. Over the long run, of course, everything evens out. But at the moment when 13 comes up four times in a row on a roulette wheel, or 11 seems to jump off the page at one, it all seems so very eerie.

And in the example cited at the head of this page, the repeated occurrence of 11 isn't even really an amazing string of multiple random occurrences but rather a contrived and manufactured method of producing a desired result. One simply chooses only the elements that fit the intended pattern and ignores the rest (e.g., many of the other significant phrases associated with the 9/11 attacks on America, such as "World Trade Center," "American Airlines," "United Airlines," or "Washington, D.C." aren't spelled using eleven letters, so they aren't included), manipulates the elements however necessary (e.g., the digits in "9/11" are added to produce a result of eleven, but the digits in "111" are left alone because the result of a similar addition would be three, not eleven), and glosses over inconvenient details (e.g., neither Iraq nor Iran has 119 as its telephone country code; American Airlines Flight 77 carried 64 people, not 65).

Another way of looking at the seemingly impressive array of elevens showcased in the widely circulated e-mail is the following, in which the same events are shaken out to produce an equally impressive array of twos, demonstrating that patterns can be concocted for just about any set of elements if one tries hard enough:
Date of the attack: 11/9; 11 - 9 = 2
Date of the attack: September 11 = 1 + 1 = 2
Year of the attack: 2001 = 2 + (0*0*1) = 2 + 0 = 2
September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11 = 1 + 1 = 2
Telephone country code for Afghanistan: 93 9 * 3 = 27; 93 - 27 = 56 = 5 + 6 = 11 = 1 + 1 = 2
World Trade Center: 2 towers
World Trade Center attacked by: 2 airplanes
Each airplane: 2 wings
The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11: 1 + 1 = 2
New York = 2 words
The Pentagon = 2 words
Ramzi Yousef = 2 words
Or, as Internet wag Dave Pawson expressed it:
Oh my God! How worried should I be? There are 11 letters in the name "David Pawson!" I'm going into hiding NOW. See you in a few weeks.

Wait a sec ... just realized "YOU CAN'T HIDE" also has 11 letters! What am I gonna do? Help me!!! The terrorists are after me! ME! I can't believe it!

Oh crap, there must be someplace on the planet Earth I could hide! But no ..."PLANET EARTH" has 11 letters, too!

Maybe Nostradamus can help me. But dare I trust him? There are 11 letters in "NOSTRADAMUS."

I know, the Red Cross can help. No they can't... 11 letters in "THE RED CROSS," can't trust them.

I would rely on self defense, but "SELF DEFENSE" has 11 letters in it, too! Can someone help?

Anyone? If so, send me email. No, don't... "SEND ME EMAIL" has 11 letters....

Will this never end? I'm going insane! "GOING INSANE???" Eleven letters!!

Nooooooooooo!!!!!! I guess I'll die alone, even though "I'LL DIE ALONE" has 11 letters....

Oh my God, I just realized that America is doomed! Our Independence Day is July 4th ... 7/4 ... 7+4=11!

- Dave

PS. "IT'S BULLSH*T" has 11 letters also.
Last updated: 11 December 2005


The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/rumors/elevens.asp
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cat Whisperer
Haven't read the link for your thread yet but to nip what Cassandra posted in the bud...
you didn't need to, I was just sharing and I didn't say it was fact
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 09:30 PM
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I believe half of what I see and believe nothing of what I read. I was around for Kennedy/Johnson/Vietman/Nixon. What a crock of bull the American people were sold. I am very wary of any government. I think we know aboput as much as they want us to know. Sound paranoid??? maybe, and Bush scares me to death

Shari
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
I have to stress, though, that without reading this entire piece it will be terribly hard to rebut.

I recommend reading it entirely, rather than making assumptions about its content.
It's the same exact stuff from before rehashed, every point they make is refuted,

in our last topic of the college students' film project "Loose Change" that was based on the "911 Revealed" book,

https://www.catforum.com/viewtopic,


so whatever is new and worth reading, is not new, and not worth reading.

if there is something that is new and different, fair enough point it out,

reminds me of the topic I didn't respond to, 9/11 Conspirator Confesses, though I wanted to say, oh I thought this was going to be about Bush,

cause that's what these people are trying to get people to think, Bush did it,

well after being reminded of the Double Embassy Bombings in Africa, the enemy has attacked us, and your either for us, or your against us,

From the first link, http://www.sfgate.com
Quote:
But oh the meat. The overwhelming quantity, the bloody, deadly stench of it.

Fact is, it is quite impossible to watch the entire "Loose Change" documentary and not come away just a little shaken,

a little awed by the sheer number of perversely interrelated facts and aberrant coincidences-that-aren't-coincidences,

shaking your head at how it all seems to irrefutably prove there is far,

far more to the Sept. 11 tragedy than just crazy Osama and his band of zealots, as you begin to sink into a sighing morass of rage and frustration and suspicion and mistrust. You almost can't help it.

Of course, there is another option. There is another way out. You may, as is the standard cultural default,

simply ignore it all, scoff and roll your eyes and shrug it all off because it's just too bleak and distasteful to entertain the idea that the dark Sept. 11 thread winds all the way through the NSA and the FBI and the White House and the Project for the New American Century

and Dick Cheney's mangled soul and God only knows where else.

But then again, no. You have to look. You have to try.

Knowledge is power, and while the truth may be spurious and slippery and messy and deep,

the pursuit of it is just about the only thing we have left. Give that up,

and all that's left is spiritual numbness, emotional stasis and death.

So what are you waiting for?

But oh the meat.

the bloody,

deadly stench of it.

as you begin to sink into a sighing morass of rage and frustration and suspicion and mistrust.

dark Sept. 11 thread winds all the way through the NSA

and the FBI

and the White House

and the Project for the New American Century

and Dick Cheney's mangled soul and God only knows where else.

Give that up, and all that's left is spiritual numbness, emotional stasis and death.


So who is going to believe these writer's are going to take an unbiased look?

Dick Cheney's mangled soul , down right rude,

Mark Morford isn't going to be a person that states anything clearly.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Daddy
Mark Morford isn't going to be a person that states anything clearly.
Of course not. He's a columnist. Columnists are opinion writers. He merely brought this matter to the forefront for many people.

Thank you, though, for responding just to say that you don't plan to read it but that it's crap anyhow. Not really the point of this thread. But hey, whatever works.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Of course not.

He's a columnist.

Columnists are opinion writers.

He merely brought this matter to the forefront for many people.
A columnist with very poor ediquette,

and yes, I did get through the first page of each, but the reputition from before was so obvious,

that's when I figured, why bother, who are these 'writers',

and then it's dawned on me, the college student's film all over again,

From the first link, http://www.sfgate.com
Quote:
But perhaps Jacobson's article is insufficient for you. Perhaps you have heard much of it before,

or you're more of the visceral type and need to actually see the proofs in order to delve deeper,

have them laid out like gruesome body parts in a mesmerizing autopsy.

Fair enough.

For you, we have the surprisingly compelling indie documentary

"9/11 Loose Change" (Google it),

freely available on the Internet

and produced by three very astute and very young and very strong-willed dudes

who managed to cobble together a truly astounding array of proofs and interviews and evidence,

a full 1 hour and 20 minutes' worth of mesmerizing footage you will not be able to easily forget.
still quoting, three very astute and very young and very strong-willed dudes

who managed to cobble together a truly astounding array of proofs and interviews and evidence,
done quoting.

cobble is an understatement.

Not only is it crap, but it's quite insensitive to those who lost friends and family members because of the enemy attacks on September 11, 2001.

The kind of offensive garbage that should be known as the fiction it is,

not as the "White House ordered it done" they'd have us believe,

if they could.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-29-2006, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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Cat Daddy, all I did was post some links and information. If you're going to get this angry and inflammatory without even reading the article, I'd rather this thread be abandoned.

I'm done with this topic, and I apologise for having started it in the first place.
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