911 calls from World Trade Center - Cat Forum : Cat Discussion Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 10:38 AM Thread Starter
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911 calls from World Trade Center

From, http://www.cnn.com

Quote:
An appeals court ruled last year that the public could only hear the voices of 911 operators and other government employees on the tapes,

saying the frantic calls of victims in the burning twin towers were too emotional to be released without families' consent.

Sally Regenhard, who lost her firefighter son and is one of the plaintiffs,

said the public should be allowed to hear both sides of the conversation to get a true picture of what happened inside the towers.

"What we're getting is only half of the truth, half of the story," Regenhard said.

She also said families should be able to listen to the callers who were not identified, to try to hear their loved ones' voices.

"Only a mother could listen to recordings and maybe hear some glimmer of your child's voice, even though his name may have been garbled," she said.

The appeals ruling allows the public release of the 28 tapes only if families consent.
Hopefully the release of these tape will help clarify the situation for everyone.

I may seem a little upset about the 'conspiracy stuff', but the whole attack still make me upset.

I would wish anyone who want to post, even the conspiracy stuff to do so,

but not just a link, people aren't generally going to go read everything someone links,

to clarify my point,

supply the link and the big idea behind it in quotes,

then if someone needs the full text for context they can go get it.

And this lady in the quote does seem to imply there is a side to the story we need to be informed of,

I can't make it any less painfull for her lossing her FireFighter Son,

but I will listen to understand her point.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 12:12 PM
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Re: 911 calls from World Trade Center

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat Daddy
I may seem a little upset about the 'conspiracy stuff', but the whole attack still make me upset.

I would wish anyone who want to post, even the conspiracy stuff to do so,

but not just a link, people aren't generally going to go read everything someone links,

to clarify my point,

supply the link and the big idea behind it in quotes,

then if someone needs the full text for context they can go get it.
I'm going to tick off my points here, for simplicity's sake, and I apologise if my tone sounds abrupt. I don't have the energy right now to make it all pleasant and uniformly paragraphical.

1. You're not the only one who is upset about the attacks. The entire nation is upset. The conspiracy theorists are upset - or they wouldn't bother. The government is upset. We're all upset. The people who hate those who "aren't with us" and "are against us" don't have a monopoly on being upset, and their opinions shouldn't carry any more weight than the rest of ours.

2. Links are sensible when citing lengthy sources. To create a post to cite all of what's available in certain articles would create an obnoxiously long (and entirely redundant) post, as well as violate copyright. You are only 'allowed' to reproduce so much of an article, even with credit given. I take that guideline very seriously.

3. It's not a matter of needing the full text for context. People can (and will) go off half-cocked with only a paragraph of information, refusing to go read the source. I'm sure I've done the same, thinking "Bah, I know what that's about, RAAR RAAR I hate it all." (I think RAAR in my head a lot. ) No, I find it much simpler to link the source, avoiding providing fodder for such reactionary impulses. And it's not the fault of the poster if others don't feel a source is worth reading.

4. Hearing 911 calls of people caught in terror during what may have been their last moments will not clarify what happened. The callers from the towers didn't know what was going on. I don't believe it will provide any illumination beyond what we already know.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 03:12 PM
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I hope the 911 operators will sound sincere and noble in those calls. Where do I go download those tapes? I wonder if they will be posted somewhere on a governmental website......

Personally I don't much care for internet sources at all. I believe anybody can justify any kind of thinking by using internet sources. Even the neo-Nazi people can justify what they think by internet articles..... I have actually read some really convincing neo-Nazi articles (not that I support them in any way or form). I simply believe an intelligent person can write about anything and make anything sound reasonable.

With research and statistics, you can pretty much prove and disprove everything and anything in the world. Statistics is a complicated thing. Two statisticans can look at a set of data and come to opposite conclusions.

I mush prefer knowing what people actually think.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 03:12 PM
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With the families consent it should be heard, it is history. Future generations should hear/know the full impact of this tradegy and understand the inhumanity.

Shari
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 03:19 PM
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The problem with family consent is that everybody has dozens of family members and family members don't usually agree with each other, especially for the people whose family members are estranged from each other.

There are plenty of things my mother has consented (my marriage, for example)....that my father has not consented to.

I am not sure if it is possible to get all the family members of the 911 victims that were on the tape to consent. I just think it may open a loophole for people to sue the goverment later.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shengmei
Personally I don't much care for internet sources at all. I believe anybody can justify any kind of thinking by using internet sources. Even the neo-Nazi people can justify what they think by internet articles..... I have actually read some really convincing neo-Nazi articles (not that I support them in any way or form). I simply believe an intelligent person can write about anything and make anything sound reasonable.

...

I mush prefer knowing what people actually think.
But... internet sources are what people think. Those sources were written by people, and they contain opinions held by people. Many of the links I post are links to the websites of print newspapers.

I have no idea what you're aiming for here. Exactly what kind of source is acceptable to you?
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aphrodeia
4. Hearing 911 calls of people caught in terror during what may have been their last moments will not clarify what happened. The callers from the towers didn't know what was going on. I don't believe it will provide any illumination beyond what we already know.
I don't think it will help with any information because, you're right, they didn't know what was going on -- but maybe it would help the families find some sort of closure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reprot
With the families consent it should be heard, it is history. Future generations should hear/know the full impact of this tradegy and understand the inhumanity.
I agree with this statement...the Holocaust was horrible, slavery was horrible...but it's the personal stories and experiences that help us understand the situation better.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 07:33 PM
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All sources are equally acceptable and unacceptable to me. I just want to know what people on the cat forum think by themselves without quoting from somebody.

Sorry Cat Daddy...I think your quotes are WONDERFUL. I am just more interested in what YOU have to say about the matter.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 03-31-2006, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Both CNN and FOX have stories with links to the conversations that have been made public so far;
http://www.cnn.com, http://www.foxnews.com.

To elaborate farther what 'I' perfer on the quoting, here's a link with more links to the conversations too,

From, http://www.msnbc.msn.com

Quote:
The Times and family members hoped the audiotaped calls would reveal details of what happened inside the towers

and whether 911 operators misdirected the victims.
a point I would also like to convey from the story and it is the thesis, or the whole point of if,

clearly easily to read and you don't have to sift through the story to try to understand the point,

when only given a link to an article, it just seems like your left trying to figure out everything,

and when conversing, it seems much better to make a point,

then have some long context to figure out the thesis.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-01-2006, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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At work, especially in a tall building or in a dangerous area you should be well aware of all the exits,

the storing of chemicals, like the #7 building that collapsed several hours after the World Trade Towers did,

2 big tanks of desiel fuel are being investigated as part of the cause of the fire there burning so long.

and the fire risk, from what I understand,

also caused structural damage in the Twin Towers due to once the support beams got hot enough, their stress limits weakened,

and they could no longer hold what was above them.

Yes, 911 Operators are a great resource, but they cannot be fully informed of all the possible varibles going on in every situation.

Your own training and knowledge maybe the thing that saves you.
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