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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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People against TNR?

I was skimming the craigslist pet section yesterday and came across a link to some organization against feral feeding and TNR. Just out of curiosity, I clicked the link. Seemed to be a lot of opinion and little fact, but claiming the TNR and feral feeding doesn't reduce the feral population and how feral cats meet tragic deaths. Even gave a story about a cat hit by a car and how it suffered horribly before it was found, but also noted they didn't even know if it was a feral or pet cat. I couldn't find the ad on craigslist this morning, so someone must have flagged it. Article doesn't mention that people who do TNR typically try to find homes for the kittens and get them off the streets.

My kitties were born feral, and their former foster mom is heavily involved in trapping and TNR. She was telling me about a colony living on the train right of way and how hard it was for her to get there but she finally was able to trap all the kittens and adults, spayed and neutered the adults and returned them after arranging for a feeder (a homeless guy living next to the tracks there). I think she may have kept some more adoptable adults too.

Seems to me that would at least keep the population from exploding. Its growing because too many people don't get their pets fixed, and are abandoning or dumping their pets. The population would probably be even bigger without TNR.

Anyway, this is just me ranting, but what is motivating these people? I guess its nothing new using misinformation to push an agenda.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 12:58 PM
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There are other methods of population control!

'Feeders' I'm against, certainly. As those cats live and breed.

Not just schemes for feeding ferals, but there are plenty of cat owners who feed ferals/strays in their back yards ... and think they are being kind.

Everyone now and again, the cats go off their food, or appear to have something seriously wrong with them and they undertake to bring them to the vet.

Just last week, I saw a cat estimated to be in its midteems, that had entropion (its eyelashes were turned into its eyes) ... that doen't just happen, that cat had that condition from birth, and has lived its whole life with immense suffering. Around its eyes and face were so swollen from irritation, that the redness was gone and the swelling was like a permanent disfigurement. They eyes themselves had a layer of thickened lens from years of irritation.

It was really disgusting - and yes, I'd rather that cat was humanely destroyed as a young feral, rather then live in suffering.

TNR is preferable to just feeding (at at least it prevents more cats ending up in the same circumstance) but we still see the same types of cases, middle age cats with horrid debilitating diseases that have been affecting them for a long time - when really, unless you are prepared to take its entire health under consideration - it should have been euthanised.

I don't obviously have an issue with trapping and neutering to rehome! And I think the money that some people spend 'maintaining' a feral or stray on food, for a year, or years(!) would be better spent, if it were saved and put to this use!!
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 01:04 PM
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I can't say I agree with that website though
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 04:35 PM
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These could be bird loving cat haters hiding behind a lot of long winded sounds sincere garbage.

I don't particularly like birds

The last time people tried to elimate free roaming cats it resulted in The Black Plague.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 04:52 PM
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I know there is opposition to TNR (TrapNeuterRelease) from bird lovers with good justification. Feral and outdoor pet cats kill a lot of birds. As much of a birdlover as I am a cat lover, I have switched over the years from allowing some of my cats to be indoor/outdoor to strictly indoor cats. They don't miss what they don't know or haven't experienced and are perfectly happen and content inside. Years before when I did have indoor/outdoor cats, it always grieved me when they brought me dead or injured birds, especially baby robins, or other songbirds, sometimes rabbits or snakes as well. All animals play a role in our ecosystem, and I can't tell you how much has changed with fewer and fewer birds around. Our world is poorer without them for their insect control, beauty and song. We used to have House Finches and Song Sparrows sing in our garden, but no longer with all the neighbors who have outdoor cats. It is gradually becoming a Silent Spring around here. (book by Rachel Carson) Sad! Sad!

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 05:09 PM
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I think cats have made the bird population stronger by culling the weak. They don't catch the best and brightest birds.

Also, cats aren't DDT

The last time people tried to elimate free roaming cats it resulted in The Black Plague.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 05:19 PM
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I think there needs to be a balance in TNR. Some people are so enthusiastic to "live and let live" that they do indeed let sick and older cats stay in the colony...which increases competition for food, territory, shelter and other resources. So a huge colony is struggling to survive.
On the other hand, I believe that sick, injured and very old cats with arthritis should be humanely euthanized. This lets the colony be smaller with healthy and/or younger cats, so that they thrive, rather than just merely scrapping by every day for necessities. IF medical care can be given to sick/injured cats, by all means...let them stay. But if you can't handle them to administer medicine, change bandages or other care, there's no point in letting them suffer simply because somebody has a strictly "no kill" mentality.

In my opinion, if they are fed enough food from humans, they won't hunt as many birds. They'll still hunt some, as it's instinct, but not purely out of hunger like if they were totally neglected.
Right now in my yard, the plum tree is FULL of little birds (they look kind of like chick-a-dees but aren't). There's also plenty of starlings, robins, tanagers, western kingbirds and in warm weather I've seen at least a dozen hummingbirds on the rose bush. Yes the cats get some sometimes, but I doubt the birds are in any danger of being totally wiped out. And of course the magpies...who steal the cat food a lot of times


The colony I take care of started with 13 cats. Due to many reasons including my budget for food, illnesses, attacks from other animals, etc. it is now down to 4...I think.

Zazzle I see every day. Tangelo I see a couple times a week. Disco has been missing since March 2011, and I haven't seen Rune since Jan. 2011.

People might get mad at me for putting down 10 cats. But the ones I now have are healthy, have plenty of food, and I have enough shelter for each cat to have their own little winter house (though they do share sometimes). I am much happier seeing this, than watching over a dozen cats limp around and "hack up a lung" all the time when they get sick every other month.

Oh, and I have rescued 2 litter of kittens (tried trapping their mom for TWO YEARS! She was trap-smart). Disco and Zinara I kept. 5 other kittens were tamed and adopted into Forever Homes. So I do try to save who I can!

Last edited by Vivid Dawn; 01-13-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 05:21 PM
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As much as I love cats I can totally understand where people come from that are against TNR. TNR is helpful to control cats of course but it's only addressing some of the feral cats. Even with TNR they damage our ecosystem, neutering only address part of the issues regarding feral cats in the wild.

Things like rabbit culling or deer culling or even less protested - more like praised - rodent killing or bug exterminating aren't overly protested, and are important when numbers get too high and they start putting things out of balance. With feral cats that just doesn't happen and birds are suffering for it.

Whether you like birds or not, they are a key part of our ecosystem and their numbers are plummeting, cats are only one factor in this, but it is still quite serious and all issues surrounding why this is happening should be considered.

I try to be neutral on the whole thing, but of course they're cats, so like most everyone else I lean more on their side... which really, shouldn't be what happens.

Saying cats culling the weak is a little far fetched, unlike with chasing land animals that are too weak to run away, when it comes to birds the only way they're going to catch a bird is by a sneak and pounce or raiding nests. Whether the bird was a strong or weak bird we'll never know, it had as much chance of avoiding being caught as it would've trying to avoid being hit by a car from behind.


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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 08:13 PM
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When I was trying to find a foster group for an abandoned cat (didn't work so now he's moving in) two groups bristled at my Vet's name. They think she's the
Dr Mengele of Florida because she won't support TNR. She tinks stray's had a bad life and wants them put down.


But really, really alert birds wouldn't get caught

The last time people tried to elimate free roaming cats it resulted in The Black Plague.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 08:45 PM
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Strays and ferals DO have a bad life. No regular medical care (if at all), shelters are usually drafty and not insulated, food is scarce unless there's a dedicated feeder that provides enough, don't get to relax much as they always have to be on alert to run away from predators - animals and human.

I'm always fretting for my ferals. Yes I provide little boxes with straw for shelter... but it's still 20F outside, and even after their body heat warms up those boxes a little, there's still a draft from the door (I am going to see about getting a thin plastic flap to keep the draft out). Even so, they can't stay in those houses all winter...they have to step out in the belly-deep snow to eat and go potty.

There's other critters that want the territory and food. Raccoons, when they're not hibernating, are MEAN and vicious and fight for stuff rather than just giving in cuz some kitty fluffs it's tail and hisses (Raccoons have charged at ME, and I was standing up and shouting at them!)
My neighbor has large chickens who aren't exactly docile either.
Two of the three fields/pastures that the cats use for hunting grounds need a road to be crossed. One road isn't very busy, but people speed because it's out in the country and figure they won't get caught. It's 25mph limit, but nobody ever goes that slow and zips through. The other road is busy AND people speed.
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