I'm trying to avoid ground, but these are two reasons I debated heavily on it as opposed to just automatically choosing whole prey/frankenprey.
I had a really hard time finding good feeding information for frankenprey (basically I wanted some info from vets, like the ground recipe by that one vet), and what I did find differs widely from person to person. Some people say no supplements are needed, others say some supplements are. It confuses me.
And yeah, the bones still scare me too. I've read over and over that they're fine with bones, but I can see why some people may want to grind them up to be safe.
Bear with me this is going to be long, and sorry to high jack your thread.
I wrote this post and this message to someone, just posting again
"If your worried about nutrition. Use this http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
or Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com
while looking at http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 99&aid=657
. It should answer about 95% nutrition worries. The other 5% is tiny bit more difficult but the information is out there and somewhat clear. Every diet (including dry and wet) has risks. You just have to decide what risks you are willing to take." (forgot to add this http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf
"My post, that you quoted, was hopefully to ease any nutrition worries by anyone that was skeptical. I had thought, that if someone had the AAFCO guidelines this would help them as they looked at different ingredients using the nutrition sites. They could take the information from the nutrition sites and match them up with the AAFCO. Almost like a check list. This technically wouldn't mean that the diet is fully complete. Just that chicken contains certain b vitamins and so on, not that it contains the complete amount. If you wanted to make sure your diet contains enough of the minimum recommended amounts by the AAFCO, then you would have to do what your apparently trying to do right now.
There is not much data about what bone contains as far as nutrients. There is my theory that may provide some insight. The bones refuse is a fairly close amount (at least IMO from comparing different studies), though with wings I am not sure if they are using the whole wing in that refuse number or the processed raw wings we normally see for sale. But for now, to only chicken wing data we have is on the meat. Converting that data to compare with the AAFCO takes a little math.
You may or may not know all of this but I will go over a little bit anyway
The AAFCO minimum guidelines are based off of a kilogram(2.2lbs) of food in dry matter. Per the guidelines protien should be at least 26%. So 26% of 2.2lbs of dry matter needs to be protien.
Bear with me for this next part. I will post two results, one with diet of only whole chicken wings the other with adhering to the prey model guidelines.
Chicken wings are about 71% moisture with bones (using data from ground chicken necks which are close enough IMO). So it has a dry matter content of 29%. 2.2lbs is 29% of 7.6lbs. The usda says a chicken wing is 32% meat. 32% of 7.6lbs is 2.432lbs of total wing meat. Punching in 2.432lbs (need to convert to grams) in the usda database tells us that 2.432lbs of wing meat, which is the total amount found on 7.6lbs of wings, has 242.33 grams of protien. 2.2lbs equals 997.9grams. 242.33grams is 24.2% of 997.9. So a diet of mainly chicken wings provides approximately 24.2% protien on a dry matter basis. Man that looks confusing. My numbers in my calculations were rounded and I speculate usda numbers are averages. So this is just in the ball park.
Next is prey model. chicken meat is about 25% dry matter. i am not going to figure out what the dry matter would be with bones and organs. I think 25% is a fair number. 2.2lbs is 25% of 8.8lbs. Prey model is 80% meat. 80% of 8.8lbs is 7.04lbs of total meat. Punch in 7.04lbs (need to convert to grams) into the usda database and you get a total of 682.98grams of protien. 682.98grams is 68.44% of 997.9. So chicken meat when adhering to a prey model diet contains about 68.44% protien on a dry matter basis.
You can figure out the mg/kg the aafco has for some nutrients. Its pretty much the same process. once you figure out the total amount of meat to feed just look at the nutrient levels and that is about whats in a kilogram of dry matter.
Again don't forget that my numbers and the usda is not exact. They are ballpark. So if you find that the diet is possibly low in something, if you have variety you are most likely taken care of. I will say that the b vitamins will seem a little low in the usda numbers, possibly why some say to add a b-complex, like catnutrition and catinfo. I don't add any.
I hope I didn't confuse you even more. Probably your best bet would be to match the AAFCO nutrients with the ingredients in the diet. That would theoretically show that meat, bones, organs, and fat contains everything required by the AAFCO. Calcium, taurine, and possibly vitamin d will be the hardest to match if you don't know what they are normally found in. I supplement taurine even though there is argument that meat contains enough. The usda database won't list, aside from a small amount of calcium, any of those with the normal ingredients used. One of the reasons why I said 95%."