Supplements - WHY necessary? - Cat Forum : Cat Discussion Forums
 
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Supplements - WHY necessary?

Hello!

I posted an introduction a few days ago, after "lurking" here for several days and reading just about every raw post there is!

My husband and I have six cats, ages 4-14. We got two Boxer puppies almost two years ago, and started them on raw almost right away! What a blessing that has been!

Although it is going slowly, we are transitioning our cats over now. One with great success, four with mild/moderate success, and one with nearly NO success (she is the one with on-going tummy issues!).

At this stage, I have a a couple questions, please, and I know I will come up with more as we get further into this:

1) WHY is "glandular supplement" necessary - what does it do?

2) Why are the supplements of B-50 complex, dry-E, and glandular supplement needed with ground raw but not frankenprey? I understand the reasoning behind additional taurine with ground, but not the reasoning behind additional E and B or glandular supplement...unless the reasoning is the same!

I have these three items in my cart on Amazon.com, and will place the order once I am clear on why they are necessary.

Thanks so much to all members here for contributing to such a friendly, informative, helpful forum!

Michelle in Massachusetts
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Auntie!

Thanks for the warm welcome and the response!

I am using this recipe.

I have a 14 year old female I rescued as a feral kitten and she switched to chunk chicken thigh, heart, liver and pork kidney the first night! SHE is eating all BONELESS chunk right now(we are adding ground egg shell), and we will introduce turkey next week (and then other meats). However, the other cats won't touch the chunks, so we we are coarse grinding. Actually, the coarse ground comes from the supplier we use for our dogs raw (she is FANTASTIC!). This mixture is coarse ground chicken, hearts, and liver with BONE-IN. She offers other mixes, including rabbit and duck, that we can move to, but right now, the best I can do with the other cats is 60/40 canned cat food/ground. We're working our way up, and hopefully, SOMEDAY, we will be able to get everyone on frankenprey (that's the goal).

THANKS for the helps!

Michelle in Massachusetts
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Quackers View Post
1) WHY is "glandular supplement" necessary - what does it do?
Well, I may have just learned something about the answer to this question here: "Multi-glandular supplement - I initially added this item but when Mad Cow disease surfaced, I discontinued the use of this supplement. Also, I have my doubts that there is any benefit derived from this supplement - other than its iodine source if thyroid glands are used. It is more than likely just a very expensive source of protein which ends up being digested just like any other protein that is ingested."
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-05-2011, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
I've reviewed the recipe you're using - the reason the glandular supplement is included is because there are no organ ingredients besides liver (which is just one of the two necessary organ ingredients for a balanced feline diet).
AC
Oh for heaven's sake! I can not believe I missed that AC! Makes PERFECT sense! Sigh! I can't believe I didn't catch that! Thanks so much!

Do you see any reason to supplement with vitamins E and B-50 complex? I should also mention - just in case - that I have not had any need to supplement the cats (other than Dotty who has all kinds of tummy issues!) with psyllium.

Thanks again so much AC!

Michelle
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-10-2011, 03:17 PM
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If you check out her FAQ page from the same site it actually answers most of your questions, see below

"I thought this diet was attempting to reverse engineer a cat's natural prey. There are no Vitamin E or salmon oil capsules in a mouse, so what's the deal?

Darn it, you got me.

Seriously, you're correct that this diet is an attempt to create a mouse. But because there are usually limits to what we have to work with to accomplish that, we have to find ingredients and supplements to make up for nutrients that are lost by virtue of the fact that we're not serving fresh, whole prey and are instead buying meat, processing it (i.e., cutting it up, exposing a good deal of its surface area to air), and--for the sake of convenience and sanity--storing it. And in storing or freezing anything, you're going to lose some nutrients.

Remember too that even if you're buying a whole chicken carcass, you're still not serving a truly WHOLE carcass. The brains and eyes of a cat's prey, for example, supply a perfectly balanced ratio of Essential Fatty Acids. Because most people aren't going be serving brains and eyes (unless you've stumbled onto an awfully resourceful and accommodating butcher), we need to do the best we can to make up for it and, hence, the salmon oil.

The Vitamin E is there to slow down oxidation of the meat which inevitably occurs once it's cut up or ground. Psyllium supplies soluble and insoluble fiber, such as might be found partly digested and in small amounts in the stomach of a cat's prey, without adding carbohydrates. Extra Taurine is there to make up for what may get lost as a result of prolonged storage or freezing of muscle or organ meat. The Winn Feline Foundation conducted an important study of raw rabbit diets for cats and learned that despite the high levels of Taurine in rabbit meat, cats fed this diet suffered from serious Taurine deficiencies. The study posited that it was possible that the bacteria in the carcass of ground rabbits or in the intestines of the cat broke down some of the Taurine. Whatever the reason, because Taurine is such a critical amino acid for cats--both for their digestion as well as their heart function--adding extra to a cat's raw diet is very wise.

Taurine is absolutely essential when it comes to steering clear of heart muscle failure in cats (dilated cardiomyopathy), and is also important in preventing feline central retinal degeneration which can cause blindness in cats.

Finally, commercially raised meats are simply not as high in many of the nutrients of free-range, naturally-raised animals that are fed a truly species-appropriate diet.

Similarly, egg yolks are added to the recipe that I use because they supply such a truly "perfect protein" and are a very nice polish to the diet, particularly if that diet is prepared using something other than perfectly fresh, species-appropriate-fed meat.

Obviously, feeding live mice, other rodents, or small birds that came from their natural environment is by far the best food for our carnivores. Since most of us aren't going to feed live, fresh prey, we are left in our kitchens to reverse engineer what they would get in that environment."

faqs - cat nutrition

The only thing not addressed is the b vitamins. But from what I understand from HUMAN nutrition (so take it with a grain of salt) You cannot overdose on B vitamins because they are water soluble and are also somewhat delicate. So it is basically insurance in case the grinding mixing freezing etc destroys alot of them. Look at most energy drinks for people and they have like 1000% percent your daily intake requirement for B vitamins in them because they are energizing.

I make some ground for my cats with this recipe and I don't use the multiglandular I add my own kidney and I stopped adding psyllium with no issues.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-22-2011, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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That's very helpful - and clearly, if I had read the entire site, I would have been able to answer my own questions!

Many thanks!

Michelle in Massachusetts
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imgliniel View Post

The only thing not addressed is the b vitamins. But from what I understand from HUMAN nutrition (so take it with a grain of salt) You cannot overdose on B vitamins because they are water soluble and are also somewhat delicate. So it is basically insurance in case the grinding mixing freezing etc destroys alot of them. Look at most energy drinks for people and they have like 1000% percent your daily intake requirement for B vitamins in them because they are energizing.
The B vitamins are a little difficult to address. When you start comparing, using what resources are available to us, you start to notice that chicken is low in B vitamins. That may be because of their diet, you are what you eat. But after using the AAFCO guidelines and comparing to information we have on chicken. There is enough variation in the numbers to show regular chicken may have enough,imo. But if you vary the diet, there is an even better chance you don't have to worry about it.
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