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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-28-2015, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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questions about raw feeding

Yes, here I am. Cluckingduck hisownself! My cat is Artie, a Broken Mackerel Tabby, who we mistakenly thought was a Bengal F4=F5 until we were corrected by a Bengal society knowledgable party.

We are into the transition into raw feeding. My question, for starters is, has anyone become familiar with 1) Ingrid King, and also, 2) Linda Zurich??!!

To me one seems pretty reasonable, and one close to over the top. And NO, you have to guess which is which.

Thanks,
and finally ... What is the very BEST raw food to feed a cat? Is frozen or freeze=dried preferred? Is it necessary to go to the market, but chicken legs, etc, and feed like that? How do you track nutrients/calories etc if you do not use some sort of commercial raw food source?

Thanks again,
The duck
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-30-2015, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Question Primal, RadCat, etc

While these are 'commercially produced' they are still 'raw.' Any bad outcomes from feeding these to your cat(s)? I have yet to see the downside to buying prepared food, as long as it is comprised of literally the same stuff my cat would get if I threw him a 5 minute dead chicken part. On the other hand, I really have no clue as to what goes into these brands, except for what the label tells me. Any firsthand knowledge of "proper;y prepared" ready-to-go cat food? PS... I recently ordered some freeze-dried K9 food for cats from NZ. So, I'm also interested in understanding if 'freeze-dried' is as good as frozen, like Primal, etc.

Thanks in advance for any light you may shed on this dilemma (aka dilemna).
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 03:44 AM
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I think I've visted both King's and Zurich's websites, but have not purchased any books. I've learned a lot here from others, for FREE!

The best raw food, imho, is one that is nutritionally balanced with high protein, moderate fats, and minimal carb content. I buy commercial raw a lot, but it comes with a hefty price for the convenience. I've tried Rad Cat, and my two were "meh" with its mushy texture, plus I've one cat that don't care for chicken or turkey much, and did not like lamb one bit, lol. I've tried the Primal in freeze dried nuggets, which you add water to, and both my cats liked it a lot. I don't plan to buy any more, though, because it has a lot of vegetable content that I'm not very fond of, and it kinda resembles dry food a bit too much for my taste, which I try to avoid.

Calorie nutrient/calorie content you can either read its label like on Primal's, or look it up online, or email them. Nutrient content of raw meat itself is also available online, just google it.

Personally, I don't see any bad outcomes from feeding commercial raw, as long as YOU are well informed on cat nutrition and raw, and also ALWAYS read the back labels or can speak to the manufacturer directly about its food content. I prefer to feed my cats a diet that isn't HPP though, so normally I favor my local brands and sometimes I'll buy the occasional raw chicken thighs, necks, hearts, liver, and add in some supplements.

If you want to feed "chicken parts", you may want to do a prey model raw diet and do some reading on it if you haven't. A dead chicken is ok, as long as you knew the chicken wasn't loaded up on antibiotics, preservatives, chemicals, salt, or came from china. And I suppose I'd like to know how the chicken died, too. Wouldn't like to feed a cat or myself if I didn't feel comfortable about beforehand. There's also a yahoo forum on feeding raw to cats and dogs, I'm not a member there, but they probably are more of a raw advocate than canned food, for sure.

Last edited by TabbCatt; 05-31-2015 at 03:49 AM.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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in the dark, sort of

Thanks for the reply. My position is that for whatever its worth, they're a few folks who might or might bot tend to be extreme. Those being the folks that denounce any food other than 'raw meaty bones.' Now that might indeed be the best, but as you stated, we don't always know where this stuff comes from, or how its raised. I think I'm going to be happy with commercial raw foods, like Primal or RadCat, or any other that comes to light as a superior food, with a once or twice a week can of Weruva or some other canned food. If you can think of any better frozen foods, let me know. BTW, I am waiting on a freeze dried food from New Zealand called K9 Natural. The analysis is:

Guaranteed Analysis (Freeze Dried)
Please note, slight differences exist between lab data and guaranteed analysis due to ensuring minimum and maximum values are met.
Minimum Crude Protein
46%
Minimum Crude Fat
30.2%
Maximum Crude Fibre
4%
Maximum Moisture
8%
Calorie Content ME (calculated)
4763 kcal/kg
71 kcal/cup

Of course, adding water is the way I would go with this food. But, I also tend to think like you re: freeze-dried vs dry food. Unless this proves to be the Uber-cats-meow food, it'll likely be my last adventure with overseas products.

Thanks again.
The Duck
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 12:59 PM
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Most times, the freeze dried food and treats go amazingly well with my cats. I use those sparingly and use them as toppers on certain raw foods that my one picky cat doesn't really like to eat normally, or after completing a nail trim as a reward.

Actually, I think I recall my local shop selling K9 Natural too. I just don't think the calorie content is enough, though. 71 kcal/cup is pretty low. Is that kcalorie/cup with or without water? Most altered adult cats will eat about a 3 oz portion per meal (hydrated with water), and require an intake of at least 200 kcalories/day...most decent quality canned cat food has a moderate to high fat content, so calories/can are well over 200 kcal. Weruva's Paw Lickin' Chicken is very, very low in calories, too. And you may want to avoid fish flavors for cats, where Weruva's flavors dominate. Fish isn't natural to cats, but once a week meal of small fish high in omega-3 like sardines is ok if they are on a raw diet.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Help ~ from those who know

I have fallen onto the trap-I have read too much re what to feed my cat! I know we want to go to something like 80% raw and 20% canned, for those 'treat' days. We have been transitioning for a week or more, and have looked at several pages from cat-folks, who, oddly enough don't even seem to have a consensus. For canned, we are trying Weruva, Cats in the Kitchen (same), Instinct, Merrick, and have an order in for Fowl Ball. For raw brands, we have Primal Instinct, K9Natural, and RadCat.

While we are at the beginning of this journey, I feel spun as to which might be the tops! Some canned food has a protein of 10-12%, while others read 50-70%. I'm thinking that I am missing something when it comes to reading labels. How can one can have 56% protein, and another (high-rated) only 10%? Something about dry-rated?

Well, if someone wanted to tell me their secret combo recipe, that would be cool. I know, I know - read the label. BUT I HAVE READ THE LABELS! All of them.

I'm really liking the raw in the am, and canned in the pm feedings. AND, finally, is there a brand of raw that actually has real meat and bones in it? I mean frozen partially ground stuff? I really do not want to home cook cat food, but, some say it is the proven way to know what you get. AND, when feeding this way, how can one know the cals, proteins, fats, carbs, etc in a 'serving?'

As always, thanks for helping a newb in this area.
The Duck
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-04-2015, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cluckingduck View Post
For canned, we are trying Weruva, Cats in the Kitchen (same), Instinct, Merrick, and have an order in for Fowl Ball. For raw brands, we have Primal Instinct, K9Natural, and RadCat.
First off, that sounds like a good rotation, for both raw and canned. Keeping a wide variety will keep your kitty interested in mealtimes and prevent boredom, plus if one company changes their formulation, you won't be in panic mode scrambling to find something in its place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cluckingduck View Post
Some canned food has a protein of 10-12%, while others read 50-70%. I'm thinking that I am missing something when it comes to reading labels. How can one can have 56% protein, and another (high-rated) only 10%? Something about dry-rated?
You may need to do more reading on reading commercial canned food, especially regarding GA and DMB (dry matter basis) when comparing foods:
Commercial Canned Foods by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM :: reading cat food labels, canned versus dry cat food
Click on the "composition" and calculating protein, fat, carbohydrates percentages on Lisa's website above.

Or this is site may explain it a bit easier, and be more user friendly:
Commercial Canned or Raw Cat Foods | Feline Nutrition Awareness Effort

Quote:
Originally Posted by cluckingduck View Post
Well, if someone wanted to tell me their secret combo recipe, that would be cool. I know, I know - read the label. BUT I HAVE READ THE LABELS! All of them.
Yeah, the commercial pet food companies seem to make things really, really difficult, don't they? Lol. Notice they never, ever list how much carb content is in their food? But they'll list potatoes, peas, tapioca in their grain-free lines. You want animal based proteins much more than those that are plant-based. I don't like to buy canned foods with "pea protein" or "potato protein", but that's my personal preference, and the reason I supplement with raw meats (to increase the the animal based protein content in their food more than fats, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cluckingduck View Post
AND, finally, is there a brand of raw that actually has real meat and bones in it? I mean frozen partially ground stuff? I really do not want to home cook cat food, but, some say it is the proven way to know what you get. AND, when feeding this way, how can one know the cals, proteins, fats, carbs, etc in a 'serving?'
I think there are some, but again, brands can vary from each locale or store. I can get a product called Small Batch which is local to the Pacific NW, but there are companies you could order from directly called Feline's Pride and Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow. They are both on the East Coast of US (Feline's Pride from FL, and HTGT from PA). Just beware of shipping costs, of course. Nutritional values from commercial raw companies should be able to answer your questions on line via email or talk to over the phone if their labels seem too vague.

Others into feeding a whole prey diet to their cats may prefer to go and order from rodentpro.com and purchase a meat grinder, grind their own meat, organs, & bones, and add the necessary supplements. Catinfo.org (Lisa Pierson's website) has a recipe for making your own raw cat food and info on which grinder she recommends.

Last edited by TabbCatt; 06-04-2015 at 04:08 PM.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-04-2015, 04:13 PM
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I'm very ignorant in some respects but from the time I was a kid, my family fed a mixed diet of raw, packaged and home cooked. In general, it seems to have worked.

Last edited by Arianwen; 06-04-2015 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Spellings errors.e
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-04-2015, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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thats a lot of good info...

I think there are some, but again, brands can vary from each locale or store. I can get a product called Small Batch which is local to the Pacific NW, but there are companies you could order from directly called Feline's Pride and Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow. They are both on the East Coast of US (Feline's Pride from FL, and HTGT from PA). Just beware of shipping costs, of course. Nutritional values from commercial raw companies should be able to answer your questions on line via email or talk to over the phone if their labels seem too vague.

Thanks. We also live in the NW part of the country, but a bit south from you, in Humboldt county, CA. So, I will look up )online) Small Batch, and also do some reading on Lisa's site, as well as the FNAE site, which is really LOADED with fine data.
Thanks for the help!
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