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According to our NBC affilitate:

Report: Rome, London Arrests Nab All 4 Bombing Suspects

Police made a number of arrests in London, and now an arrest in Rome could mean the four identified suspects in the July 21 attempted bombings are in custody.
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Some officials believe there is at least one of the terrorist still running loose. However, one of the officials said that it is not unusual for arrested colleagues to give the police information. Surprisingly, some arrests were made close to the bombing sites.
 

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WOW My husband is from the UK and he can't get over what's going on over there. Some people are really sick. Hopefully they will catch all of them, lock them up and throw away the keys!
 

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I found this paragraph in a Washington Post Editorial today.

Those numbers are stunning! 8O

Give Grandma a Pass
Politically Correct Screening Won't Catch Jihadists

By Charles Krauthammer

Friday, July 29, 2005; Page A23

Six percent of British Muslims -- more than 100,000 citizens -- thought the July 7 London terror attacks were justified. A quarter of British Muslims merely sympathize with the bombers. Even more shocking, nearly one-fifth of British Muslims say they feel little or no loyalty to Britain. Yet the most disturbing news from the July 23 London Telegraph poll is that these trends are worse among younger British Muslims.

 

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Muslim scholar: Terrorists are mass murderers, not martyrs

BY RICHARD SCHEININ

Mercury News

Tuesday's terrorist attacks have saddened and maddened millions -- and raised questions for many about Islam. Speculation abounds that the hijackers were inspired by terrorists like Osama bin Laden, who teach that violent acts can pave the way to paradise. But what does Islam really say about such matters? About jihad and martyrdom?

We asked Hamza Yusuf, an Islamic scholar in the East Bay, who said the attackers were ``enemies of Islam.'' Not martyrs, but ``mass murderers, pure and simple.''
++++++++++++++++++

This exerpt is from a periodical for Muslims.

http://www.soundvision.com/info/terrorism/hamza.asp
 

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Jeanie said:
This exerpt is from a periodical for Muslims.

http://www.soundvision.com/info/terrorism/hamza.asp
SoundVision? hahahaha. I hope you know who your "source" is...

One of many many examples of what SoundVision is.

Muslims in Lebanon and the West Bank are not the only ones celebrating yesterday’s mass murder of children in Jerusalem. At SoundVision.com, an Islamic organization headquartered in Bridgeview Illinois, Muslim American teenagers are ululating and singing the praises of Allah over the killings: Martyrdom Operation Kills up to 20 and Injures more than 80.

Not all of the people on their discussion forum are sadists. A few express mild disapproval of the unseemly rejoicing—only to be lectured by the freaks, and confronted with long quotes from fatwas and hadiths justifying suicide bombing and the murder of Jews.

This is happening in Illinois, folks.

Don’t follow the link above if you have high blood pressure, or anger control issues. The hatred and venom these young American Muslims express at SoundVision is almost beyond belief, and truly shocking.

SoundVision is a tax exempt organization that spreads Islamic hatred to children. This is what they say about themselves: About Sound Vision: Vision, Introduction, Team, Achievements, Future.

The Vision of Sound Vision
The attitudes and behavior of men and women today are shaped and molded by the media whose ideals and images, by and large, are non-Islamic. Sound Vision aims to produce content with Islamic ideals and images for all current and future media. Sound Vision would like to lead the Ummah in the field of communication, Insha Allah.

Our Vision for Children
Sound Vision would like to see our children achieve their full potential as dynamic and creative individuals who are comfortable with themselves and their environment. By absorbing the noble virtues of Islam in their formative years, our children will, Insha Allah, not only be better Muslims and better citizens, they would also strive to achieve the best of this world and the best of the world to come.
Oh, and how about this:

Bridgeview Illinois is the headquarters of SoundVision.com, and also home to one of the largest mosques in the Chicago area, the Mosque Foundation—an Islamic center that is now under a large-scale investigation for its alleged ties to terrorist financing: U.S. Investigating Mosque Foundation. (Hat tip: fiery celt.)

Federal authorities are investigating the Mosque Foundation in Bridgeview and its leaders for possible involvement in terror-related money laundering.

The house of worship, one of the largest Islamic centers in the Chicago area, has been under FBI surveillance for years, the Daily Southtown has learned.

A decade-old federal investigation, a landmark lawsuit filed three years ago and the government crackdown on Muslim charities after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks have served expose a complex web of small businesses and charitable associations accused of funneling money to Palestinian terrorist groups.

Federal agents, once discouraged from launching criminal inquiries into some terror-funding sources, now are nearing a critical stage in their probe into the heart of the Islamic community in and around Bridgeview.

One source familiar with the investigation said indictments could come by the end of the year.

Read the article for the full story. Here are some of the groups connected with the Mosque Foundation:

Islamic Assn. for Palestine
American Middle Eastern League for Palestine
Quranic Literacy Institute
North American Islamic Trust
American Muslim Society
Holy Land Foundation
Islamic Society of North America
oh... and for the trifecta... here's the "approved" material, for those times when the infidels ask uncomfortable questions after a jihad operation.

Your Islamic center can adopt, rewrite and issue the following statement to your local media.

Please replace “Muslims of America” with the Muslim community of your city. Type this or your modified version on your Masjid or Islamic center’s letterhead.

Fax this to the news desk of your local media outlets (newspapers, radio and television). You can Find the fax numbers in your yellow or white pages.

Do add the name of a contact person and a cell number on which that person can be reached. This person should be able to speak on your community’s behalf as a spokesperson.

If the media is interested in visiting your Masjid, Islamic center or school, welcome them.

Sample statement:

The Muslims of America join their fellow Americans today in condemning these dastardly acts of terrorism and share the grief and sorrow of the nation. Our hearts go out to the friends and families of those who are victims of this despicable tragedy.

Obviously this seems a well-planned and well-coordinated act of terrorism and we are confident that the law enforcement authorities will soon discover the identity of perpetrators responsible for this contemptible act and bring them to task with the full force of the law.

At this moment of confusion, uncertainty and naturally highly charged emotions, we earnestly appeal to the media not to rush to judgment, as was done in the wake of the April 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Let the response of our nation be mature and thoughtful. This is a moment of prayer and unity not of hasty reaction.

We pray to God to give strength to all of those who have suffered during this catastrophe.
 

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genEus, are you from Chicago?

Bridgeview.............as in the south side of Chicago? (I live only about 40 miles away)!

Your C&P is an astonishing eyeopener for me! I tried to get in to the SoundVision forum but a box said "the server is too busy at the moment" and to try again later. (Which I WILL do).

Some of the greatest attrocities in the world have been committed under the guise of religion, and preached by people who seek to brainwash & manipulate their followers to do their bidding. The "sheeple" of the world are legion & we've gott em homegrown here in the U.S. too.

I fear for us. I fear the people who witlessly allow a religious mouthpiece to interpret what a religious writing actually means, be it the Koran or the Bible or whatever writings someone believes in & thinks it to be infallible.

No thanks, I'll do my OWN interpetations, if you don't mind.

I don't really know anything about this Muslim stuff but I think it would behove me (and everyone else) to start doing some homework on it before we start making blanket statements on that faith.
 

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There are radicals in every faith. The terrorists do not represent Islam any more than the Ku Klux Klan represents Christianity. I don't think we can condemn all Muslims for what these terrorist monsters have done. Perhaps the BBC would be a more acceptable source:

Cleric condemns suicide attacks


Some groups such as Hamas use suicide bombings as a tactic
One of the world's most influential Islamic leaders has condemned all attacks by suicide bombers at an international conference for Islamic scholars.
Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of the Al-Azhar mosque of Cairo - which is seen as the highest authority in Sunni Islam - said groups which carried out suicide bombings were the enemies of Islam.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 059365.stm
 

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Jeanie said:
There are radicals in every faith. The terrorists do not represent Islam any more than the Ku Klux Klan represents Christianity. I don't think we can condemn all Muslims for what these terrorist monsters have done. Perhaps the BBC would be a more acceptable source:

Cleric condemns suicide attacks


Some groups such as Hamas use suicide bombings as a tactic
One of the world's most influential Islamic leaders has condemned all attacks by suicide bombers at an international conference for Islamic scholars.
Grand Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of the Al-Azhar mosque of Cairo - which is seen as the highest authority in Sunni Islam - said groups which carried out suicide bombings were the enemies of Islam.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 059365.stm
Last time I checked, KKK was not blowing up thousands of people, from the US to Britain to Spain to Holland to Morrocco to Sudan to Israel to Iraq to Chechnya to the Philippines...

As for Al-Azhar and Tantawi... if you have a second to actually find out the real story you may want to consider this...

4/13/2002

In a poem published Saturday in London’s al-Hayat daily, the Saudi Arabian ambassador to Britain glorified suicide bombers.

"May God be the witness that you are martyrs ... You died to honor God's word. (You) committed suicide? We committed suicide by living like the dead," Ghazi Algosaibi wrote in "The Martyrs," a short poem published on the front-page of the London-based daily al-Hayat.

In an apparent reference to Arab leaders looking to the United States for help in ending Israeli-Palestinian violence, Algosaibi, who has served as ambassador in London for more than a decade, wrote: "We complained to the idols of a White House whose heart is filled with darkness." ...

In his poem, Algosaibi referred to 18-year-old female suicide bomber Ayat Akhras, who detonated explosives strapped to her body at a Jerusalem supermarket on March 29, killing two Israelis and wounding 25.

"Tell Ayat, the bride of loftiness ... She embraced death with a smile while the leaders are running away from death. Doors of heaven are opened for her," Algosaibi wrote.

Algosaibi is a well-known poet and writer who was once quoted as saying: "Poetry is the soul of the Arabs."

And paeans to murder? What part of the Arabs is that, Mr. Ambassador?

This AP story concludes with another demonstration of the peaceful nature of Islam:

In Egypt on Friday, Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, grand imam of Al-Azhar Mosque, mainstream Islam's top seat of learning, declared: "One who blows himself up among those (Israeli) aggressors is a martyr, martyr, martyr, and whoever says otherwise is a ... liar."
also this:

12/3/2004: RoP Leader: Iraqi "Resistance" Legitimate

A few days ago, the most prestigious university in Sunni Islam, Egypt’s Al Azhar, announced that they were putting centuries-old manuscripts online, to illustrate Islam’s peaceful, tolerant nature: Al Azhar manuscripts to go online.

In an effort to promote moderate Islamic views and religious interpretations, the prestigious Islamic university Al-Azhar plans to display its centuries-old manuscripts online, officials say.

The manuscripts, some more than 1400 years old, are being touted by the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar as a means to promote tolerance and moderate interpretations of Islamic fatwas, or religious edicts.

“Highlighting Islam’s tolerance and its open-mindedness is a duty,” said Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi of Al Azhar, who is known for encouraging ties between Islam and the West.

Today, displaying no outward signs of cognitive dissonance, Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi announced that the head-chopping mujahideen of the Iraqi “resistance” are legitimate.

“The Iraqi resistance has the right to defend its land, its fatherland and its right to independence,” Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, resident imam of Cairo’s Al-Azhar mosque, was quoted as saying by the Mena news agency.
The Iraqi "resistance" is what is killing our Joshes, Kyles and Emilies... ever think about that?

Here's an article from the Boston Globe... I will just highlight the "interesting" bits... This was about the tragedy in Beslan, Russia in 2004.

They are still burying the victims of the latest atrocity committed by evildoers professing Islam -- the slaughter of hundreds of children, teachers, and parents in an elementary school in Beslan, Russia. And from Muslims the world over, as usual, has come mostly silence.

There have been no public demonstrations by Muslims anxious to make it clear how outraged and sickened they are that anyone could commit such unspeakable deeds as an act of Islamic faith. There has been no anguished outcry by Islam's leading imams and sheiks. Prominent Muslim organizations in the West have not called press conferences to express their disgust and anger. Once again the world has witnessed a savage episode of Islamist terror, and once again it strains to hear a convincing rejection of the terrorists from those who should care most about Islam's reputation.

That is not to say there has been no criticism at all. Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia telephoned Russian President Vladimir Putin to assure him that "this terrorist act . . . goes against religious teachings and violates human and moral values." Syria's official news agency decried the massacre as "a terrorist, cowardly action." Sheik Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi of Al-Azhar University in Cairo lambasted the murderers for "taking Islam as cover" and said that "those who carry out the kidnappings are criminals, not Muslims."

But these are boilerplate denunciations, practically meaningless -- particularly when they come from sources that sustain Islamist fanaticism (Saudi Arabia), shelter and support terrorists (Syria), or defend suicide bombers as praiseworthy "martyrs" (Tantawi). They condemn no terrorists or terror organizations by name. They offer no help in destroying the infrastructure that recruits, funds, and trains them. And they contain no hint that the global scourge of Islamofascist jihad is a cancer eating away at the Muslim world.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, which issues dozens of press releases every month, had nothing to say about the bloodbath in Russia until I requested a comment on Tuesday -- four days after the mass-murder occurred and nearly a week after the terrorists, shouting "Allahu akbar," first seized the school. The statement CAIR then issued doesn't even acknowledge that the killers were Muslim:

No words can describe the horror and grief generated by the deaths of so many innocent people at the hands of those who dishonor the cause they espouse. We offer sincere condolences to the families of the victims and call for a swift resolution to the conflict in that troubled region that will let all people live in peace and freedom.

At least CAIR went through the motions of condemning the butchery. Other voices preached a different message altogether.

Ali Abdullah, an Islamic scholar in Bahrain, announced that the bloodshed in Beslan "is the work of the Israelis who want to tarnish the image of Muslims." In London, Islamist cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed said he would support hostage-taking at British schools if it were done for a good reason. "If an Iraqi Muslim carried out an attack like that in Britain," he told the Daily Telegraph, "it would be justified because Britain has carried out acts of terrorism in Iraq."

Fortunately, a few Muslim commentators have denounced the evil being done in the name of Islam, and have done so courageously and unambiguously. (The Middle East Media Research Institute has compiled their reactions at www.memri.org.) One in particular stands out: an extraordinary column in the pan-Arabic daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat by Abdel Rahman al-Rashed, the general manager of the Al-Arabiya news channel. (An English translation was published in the Telegraph.)

"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists," he begins, "but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims.

"The hostage-takers of the children in Beslan were Muslims. The hostage-takers and murderers of the Nepalese chefs and workers in Iraq were also Muslims. . . . The majority of those who manned the suicide bombings against buses, vehicles, schools, houses, and buildings all over the world were Muslim. . . . "What a pathetic record. What an abominable `achievement.' Does all this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies, and our culture?. . .


"We cannot tolerate in our midst those who abduct journalists, murder civilians, explode buses; we cannot accept them as related to us. . . . They are the people who have smeared Islam and stained its image. We cannot clear our names unless we own up to the shameful fact that terrorism has become an Islamic enterprise; an almost exclusive monopoly implemented by Muslim men and women.

"We cannot redeem our extremist youths, who commit all these heinous crimes, without confronting the sheiks who thought it ennobling to re-invent themselves as revolutionary ideologues, sending other people's sons and daughters to certain death, while sending their own children to European and American schools and colleges."

When it is no longer astonishing to encounter such sentiments in the Muslim world, we will we know that the corner has been turned in the war against Islamist terror.
 

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Obviously, we could continue quoting longer and longer sources to counteract each other's posts. I believe the terrorists are evil, and not obedient to their own religion--just as Hitler was disobedient, just as the Ku Klux Klan and the Crusaders were disobedient to the Prince of Peace. Were all of the German people evil? All Southerners? All of Gt. Britain?

Anytime the words "all" and "always" are used, we can be sure the statement is false. I will not condemn an entire religion and its followers because of its fanatics.
 

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Jeanie said:
Obviously, we could continue quoting longer and longer sources to counteract each other's posts. I believe the terrorists are evil, and not obedient to their own religion--just as Hitler was disobedient, just as the Ku Klux Klan and the Crusaders were disobedient to the Prince of Peace. Were all of the German people evil? All Southerners? All of Gt. Britain?

Anytime the words "all" and "always" are used, we can be sure the statement is false. I will not condemn an entire religion and its followers because of its fanatics.
I completely agree that the worst topics for discussion are politics and religion... I just wanted the people reading to see both sides and to discredit the Muslim clerics that you cited as the "good face of Islam." And, of course, that wasn't hard.

I think I made my point. And, yes, the truth is out there.

 

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There are radicals in every faith. The terrorists do not represent Islam any more than the Ku Klux Klan represents Christianity. I don't think we can condemn all Muslims for what these terrorist monsters have done.

Quite right Jeannie :) I am catholic does that make me a supporter or worse still, someone who would condone and applaud the IRA atrocities in the past?

This thread was raised (I think) as a comment really to say thank goodness these people have been caught! To give us a forum in which to comment about the fear which is gripping London (and the world) at the moment and to reassure each other that whilst we still live in very unstable and dangerous times some small step has been taken to combat this by capturing these people relatively quickly.

No doubt I will be called naïve but I live just outside London and I commute in by train and tube daily - I really don’t want to be in the position whereby I judge the person sat next to me because of my perception of what their religion might be. The world press is right that collectively London has been brave (just as the Americans were after 9/11) but from a personal point of view I get on the train each morning with a trepidation I would prefer to live without.

What I, and most British and American people I know want, is to live in peace within a law abiding society, regardless of their race or religion. To live in a society whereby we don’t just understand the truth about other cultures but embrace them into a society which is fit for all. They in turn must of course respect our laws and way of life.

Recent events worldwide have proven once again that extremist beliefs reside among us but until proven otherwise I for one will not be so bigoted as to tar all believers to one faith with the same brush.

Sensationalising the beleifs of the minority is in it’s own way as detrimental to society as the physical acts of violence we are currently experiencing.
 

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genEus said:
Jeanie said:
This exerpt is from a periodical for Muslims.

http://www.soundvision.com/info/terrorism/hamza.asp
SoundVision? hahahaha. I hope you know who your "source" is...

One of many many examples of what SoundVision is.

Muslims in Lebanon and the West Bank are not the only ones celebrating yesterday’s mass murder of children in Jerusalem. At SoundVision.com, an Islamic organization headquartered in Bridgeview Illinois, Muslim American teenagers are ululating and singing the praises of Allah over the killings: Martyrdom Operation Kills up to 20 and Injures more than 80.

Not all of the people on their discussion forum are sadists. A few express mild disapproval of the unseemly rejoicing—only to be lectured by the freaks, and confronted with long quotes from fatwas and hadiths justifying suicide bombing and the murder of Jews.

This is happening in Illinois, folks.

Don’t follow the link above if you have high blood pressure, or anger control issues. The hatred and venom these young American Muslims express at SoundVision is almost beyond belief, and truly shocking.
.

genEus, I went to SoundVision's web site this morning and for the life of me I didn't see any discussion forum anywhere. How do I get there? Help!
 

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Stephie said:
Quite right Jeannie :) I am catholic does that make me a supporter or worse still, someone who would condone and applaud the IRA atrocities in the past?
Stephie, I had the same conversation with some relatives in the past few weeks. My sister was on one of the trains in the original bombs and it was an awful day - we didn't hear from her for 7 hours. A lot of my family lives in London with the majority of the rest being just outside Dublin in ireland. With the exception of a few who married into the family - my whole family is Catholic and there have been a few of them involved in the IRA.

I tried to explain to them (we are talking about a small town here who after years of only having Irish people live there were in uproar when a Chinese doctor took over in the local hospital) that they couldn't judge all Muslims with the actions of a few - the same as they would hate to be judged by the actions of that distant relative who was involved in the IRA.

The media makes things so difficult and prejudiced. For them, because they have been through the IRA stuff, they can understand who is involved and why - even if it is hidden behind the religion in which they believe. But they can not seem to apply this logic to other instances of 'religious terror'. They think we would all be safer if we moved back to ireland where there 'isn't any of those terrorists'.

The 'grandma, your next door neighbour had half his family arrested for terrorism' went nowhere! It also goes to prove that when it comes to terrorists - you never know who these people are. It also didn't go down too well when I explained that just because a person was white - did not mean that they couldn't be involved in Muslim terrorist actions - who better than an atypical Muslim to carry out these acts without the prejudice that has become the norm almost instantly.

On the subway they other day, I saw a woman move with her children to the next carriage because she felt 'unsafe' next to someone who may not have even been Muslim. As she was shooing her children away from him - she was quite plainly saying that they should hurry up before they get blown up.

It's racism at its worst - on both sides. But at least with the terrorists, it is just a small few causing the problems - on the other side - its a lot of people discriminating against a whole population because of the actions of a few. Hitler doesn't represent the whole of Germany any more than these terrorists do of the whole Muslim community.

Yes the media are very good about spewing out the fact that so many percent of Muslims agreed with the actions of the bombings... but who did they ask, and did they ask the reasons behind the feelings? Of course not.

GenEus - I am sure if you looked hard enough - you could find 20 pictures of icons of other religions and nationalities being burned or otherwise destroyed for every one of an American flag.
 
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