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Hi,

I try, but at the moment only one cat gets self-made raw food (50%) and I have problems with the supplements (in particular with the minerals and trace elements). Therefore, I cannot help you with tips or recipes.

But there is a website which is recommendable if you want to "BARF" your cats:

http://www.serve.com/BatonRouge/nutr.htm

There you will also find a link to a very good Yahoo-Group:

http://login.yahoo.com/config/login?.intl=us&.src=ygrp&.done=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CatNutritionInfo/join

If you want to feed your cat with raw food fewer than 20% than you don't need any supplements. But if you want to feed more than these 20% you have to learn many about the requirement of cats before you start to feed your cats with raw food ... just my two cents :wink:

Hope it was understandable :?.

Good Luck!
 

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I do. I've fed my cats raw food since almost a year back and I itroduced bones (chicken necks and ground bones) a couple of months ago and my cats are doing great! :D

It takes some time to gather all the info that's needed to make a well balanced diet but once you've done it's easy. I only spend 1 hour a week making food for my three cats.
 

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for SOL

I also have three cats....I would be interested in any advice you could give me on making my own cat food. How did you switch yours over from commercial to home made? None of my cats will eat anything but dry and I have one fussy girl who will not come near canned food, so I have my doubts if she would even eat homemade.
 

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i dont "make" any food for my cat, or my dog. what they eat is primarily RMB's and i supplement only with what is necessary - my dog gets fish oil because he can't eat fish, and thats about it. raw is not as hard as it sounds or as some make it- my cat is currently eating pretty much what the dog eats, plus some fish - thriving on variety, and enjoying their meals!


how did i switch over? im lucky, she is almost a natural. i have found ground raw meats almost any cat will eat. i took out canned food and fed raw meat instead - now, i stopped giving dry for the most part and the cat just eats raw :) if you want more info on how to transition (and it CAN be problematic, especially getting them to eat bones), i would join a raw feeding cat list.
 

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Re: for SOL

GrammaSue said:
I also have three cats....I would be interested in any advice you could give me on making my own cat food. How did you switch yours over from commercial to home made? None of my cats will eat anything but dry and I have one fussy girl who will not come near canned food, so I have my doubts if she would even eat homemade.
Well, I had some problem with the oldest female. She's basically only eaten dry food for 3 years so she was "hooked on it". It took me a month to get her completely off the dry food. The two younger ones switched from dry to homemade on no time. I gave them a sample of it, they ate, the next day I have them some more, they ate and so on and since their tummies didn't react bad in any way they were on homemade after only a week.

When it comes ti Geisha (the older dry food-addict) I somply cut the dry food. I only fed her half the amount (15 grams) of dry food, twice a day. I offered her homemade 6-7 times a day. I also poured tuna water over the homemade stuff and then she started to sniff the food and lick the tuna water off at least. After two weeks she ate maybe a tablespoon of homemade every day and after a month the switch was complete.

Today, my finnicky Geisha eats everything! So it was a complete succes.

So when it comes to the switch one need to have a lot of patience and creativity.

When it comes to homemade, keep it simple. The idea is not that every meal is going to be 100 % balanced. The idea is to offer enough of variety to cover the cats nutritional needs over a longer period of time. I only supplement with iodine, fish oil (combined with vitamin E) and calcium (when I don't feed bones). Almost forgot, I give them brewer's yeast so that would be vitamin B supplement, but they've always been fed with brewer's yeast, for treats.
 

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kim said:
i dont "make" any food for my cat, or my dog. what they eat is primarily RMB's and i supplement only with what is necessary - my dog gets fish oil because he can't eat fish, and thats about it. raw is not as hard as it sounds or as some make it- my cat is currently eating pretty much what the dog eats, plus some fish - thriving on variety, and enjoying their meals!


how did i switch over? im lucky, she is almost a natural. i have found ground raw meats almost any cat will eat. i took out canned food and fed raw meat instead - now, i stopped giving dry for the most part and the cat just eats raw :) if you want more info on how to transition (and it CAN be problematic, especially getting them to eat bones), i would join a raw feeding cat list.
Kim What is RMB ? Also what are you supplimenting with. I admit that I'm new to the raw thing but have dome some reading on it. It sounds like your just throwing anything raw at them. How long have you been doing the raw diet ? Dont get me wrong I'm not trying to say your doing anything wrong because I dont know whats wrong or right at this point. But from what ive researched raw meat although appears to be excellant for them is unbalanced. Also what types of meats are you buying just plain old stuff from the grocery store or are you buying holistic type raw meats ??
 

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Bengal Cat said:
kim said:
i dont "make" any food for my cat, or my dog. what they eat is primarily RMB's and i supplement only with what is necessary - my dog gets fish oil because he can't eat fish, and thats about it. raw is not as hard as it sounds or as some make it- my cat is currently eating pretty much what the dog eats, plus some fish - thriving on variety, and enjoying their meals!


how did i switch over? im lucky, she is almost a natural. i have found ground raw meats almost any cat will eat. i took out canned food and fed raw meat instead - now, i stopped giving dry for the most part and the cat just eats raw :) if you want more info on how to transition (and it CAN be problematic, especially getting them to eat bones), i would join a raw feeding cat list.
Kim What is RMB ? Also what are you supplimenting with. I admit that I'm new to the raw thing but have dome some reading on it. It sounds like your just throwing anything raw at them. How long have you been doing the raw diet ? Dont get me wrong I'm not trying to say your doing anything wrong because I dont know whats wrong or right at this point. But from what ive researched raw meat although appears to be excellant for them is unbalanced. Also what types of meats are you buying just plain old stuff from the grocery store or are you buying holistic type raw meats ??
yup, RMB is a raw meaty bone. except, i dont consider chx wings or necks to be ideal - frankie has had some chicken breast, turkey backs, some beef ribs, and some pork necks. the only bones she is currently ating are the chicken ribs, and some ground bone - were still working on that. she eats whole meaty meats just fine though :)

frankie isnt getting any other supplements. cats are strict carnivores and dont need carbs or veggies, by many points of view. there are many websites out there - most "recipes" for a raw cat diet are exactly that - recipes that involve ground meat and supplements that i dont feel are necessary if you feed a well rounded diet full of variety.

i have been raw feeding my dog for close to 2 years, and researched cats for months before getting and switching frankie. i feed more towards the prey model, with whole RMBs and obtaining nutritional adequacy through variety. they do get veggies occassionally (in the ground mixes) and the dog gets human food, so there are more veggies for him - but then again, he is not a strict carnivore. the whole prey model is pretty much the cam of dr. lonsdale (of RMB promote health fame). you can view dogs who eat prey style at www.rawfeddogs.net

there are 1200 different ways to feed raw, just as there are 1200 diferent ways to feed kibble. i researched this, and to my mind, this makes more sense. if i am feeding raw and supplementing with 20 different supplements, - that means that osmething is missing in the DIET. i can do the same thing with kibble. i can obtain a nice balance of nutrients by feeding a variety of meats that are higher in certain things, lower in others. i dont focus on poulty - they get half white meat/poultry and half red meat.

things i feed: lamb, duck, rabbit, turkey, chicken, cornish game hen, beef, and pork - these are in daily rotations. add fish in for the cat, the dog doesnt eat it. the cat gets fish maybe 1 meal a week.

things in buy in these varieties: ground in all of them, but not too much. i have more ground now because i used it to transition the cat over. and i still feed it to the dog some mornings each week when i wont be home for a long time.
lamb: necks, ribs, shanks.
duck: whole
rabbit: whole
turkey: whole, necks, wings, just meat, bone in breast
chicken: whole, backs, necks, and wings, meat, bone in breast
game hens: whole
beef: ribs, necks, just meat, oxtails, butt roats, etc- and GREEN TRIPE
pork: necks, ribs, shoulder roats, butt roast, etc

other things i dont have in regular rotation - goat meat, which the dog adored but smelled a lot. venison, buffalo, kangaroo - dog adored, but expensive and i can only obtain ground, its over 4-6 bucks a lb most of the time.

where do i get them? some do come from the foodstore when they have a nice sale on beef meaty meat most of the time - however, the othesr come straight from either food dealers/butchers or dog food/raw companys (the ground is oma's pride or bravo - www.omaspride.com or www.bravorawdiet.com). much of the meat i buy is organic or "natural" grade, save for some things i just cant afford as such - lamb, for instance, is insanely priced when organic!

the dog eats whole obviously much more than the cat - because he is able to. mostly the cat eats a well rounded bit of what the dog has - if its ground, 2-3 oz of what he has. if its RMBs, i cut off a portion of the bone and with a lot of meaty meat on it and she has that to gnaw on. she has her own stuff (fish, for instance), and the dog cleans up what she doesnt eat. when there are organ meats involved, i just toss a teenier bit to the cat.

meat isnt unbalanced when you rely on variety to give you what they need. cats, unlike dogs, are strict carnivores and i am suprised honestly at how many people feed them veggies and carbs like it is part of the requirement (not a jab at kibble feeding, just a question). the dog world is MUCh more adamant about dogs being strict carns, and i dont believe that they are. if frankie needs supplementation, i may do it in the future, but it would be a 1 pill kinda thing - more in hopes of obtaining ideal rations of certain nutrients that i want to be sure are in the meats - taurine, etc (since taurine levels decrease with prolonged freezing, and dr. kittleson has said that he has seen raw fed cats have actually LOW levels of taurine int he diet, leading to DCM).

i have a healthy 1 year old (or so) cat, who is doing well.

i have a 6 year old dog, who has DCM, cancer, IVDD (Cervical), recurring perineal hernias, and a resolved atonic bladder. by all accounts, this large breed dog should be gone by now. the DCM will kill him at some point most likely, but for now, not only is he cancer free, and only SLIGHTLy neuro due to his IVDD, he is actively training, preparing to compete, and loving life. i dont think there is a single thing wrong with his diet :)

and not to throw this in, because my school does not endorse my feeding practices, bust rest assured my animals receive necessarily medical attention and are checked at least twice a year by a vet (ok the dog, havent had the cat long enough) - i am a third year vet student and my dog is as healthy as he can possibly be. looking at him you wouldnt believe what he has.
 

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incidentally, yes that is bowie on the rawfed dogs site - and no, hes not choking on a pork neck bone :) he happened to be chewing it and i got the shot of it looking like it was stuck - they used it to illustrate a point. bowie has never choked on a bone, knock on wood!
 

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Thanks for your very detailed Reply Kim. I myself am convinded raw is the way to go. I just need to understand it better so I'm providing the best I can. Also have to get over the "raw meat loads of bacteria" stigma that we humans have to be so concerned with. Anyway think I'll start after the new year. Will give me time to research. Also going to on vaca to Australia in December for 3 weeks YA !!! so dont want to start that and not be able to monitor cats for such a long time, at least at the beginning
 

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where on your site?

honestly, i cant find much there, its pretty hard to navigate. i couldnt find any article.
 

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i just glanced over the article, but there is a lot in there i dont agree with. some of the parts contradict themselves, other parts do not lead to anywhere near a balanced diet, and ABOVE ALL, you tell people NOT to feed offal! organ meats are ESSENTIAL to a diet. and you also dont even MENTION a calcium source (either supplemented or via bones).

i find the article fairly dangerous to have on the internet because i do not consider your recommended home made diet to be anywhere near balanced, and if someone follows that they could have a very sick animal.

i will go through the article in more detail later.
 

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i read it correctly and i stand by that your article presents half the information and can be dangerous to readers.

first, your first recommendation is 'vet advised diets' like hills, etc.

your second recommendation is neverto by something with byproducts in it - well, therego all the hills foods.


the only mention of raw feeding is you calling a site with general information on it, calling it extreme and strange. again, why are you posting in a raw feeding thread if you feel that raw feeding is extreme or strange?

you then recommend a homemade diet. the link you provide doesnt mention any recipes, it is a commercial site (that also incidentally doesnt agree with feeding raw). you then say you wouldnt recommend it - then why post a link? they didnt even give a recipe, though. what dont you recommend?

then you go to a link to a web version of the CVMA booklet - which specifically DOESNT recommend a homemade diet of any kind.


while you say "what foods can safely be fed" you then go ahead and give measurements and requirements. nowhere do you caution about an unbalanced diet,and yes, you DO write it to seem like its what people should be feeding. you say feed 25-50% muscle meat (no offal or animal parts). I feed raw every day- animal parts are where it is at.

offal is:
viscera and trimmings of a butchered animal often considered inedible by humans.
not unfit for consumption. i personally would never consider eating beef kidney, or tongue . my dog will. organ meat, and ANY of the insides of an animal, are edible for animals. in fact, they CAN eat any part! all meat comes from slaughter houses, unless you raise it yourself or get it from someone doing so.

your list isnt a list of what can be fed - you miss a lot of things. what it comes across as, is a recipe of what people SHOULD be feeding. and again, you did not make any mention of calcium:phosphorus ratios, ensuring that there is either a bone meal supplement fed or bones themselves. you dont mention the vitamins that need to come from organ meat, or need to be added in by hand.

you posted here to get opinions, you ask on the website for opinions. i still think your article is dangerous and doesn't reflect a full knowledge of what goes into home cooking or raw feeding. but then again, you dont agree with raw feeding, so im not sure why you posted in this thread. if you are going to post recommendations about feeding on the internet and have it on a semi-professional site, then you should have it thoroughly researched and complete in its details, and correct in its facts. people find websites and can't adequately evaluate a diet and can start to feed it - ESPECIALLY since your article is listed on a veterinary site of some sort.

and on a complete side note - i would spell/grammar check the articles as well before putting them up.
 

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About the article... when you refer to BARF, why not refer to the founder of the method? Why not refer to one of Ian Billinghursts websites or books?

There are many strange "variants" of BARF out there, but the original BARF is the method promoted by Ian Billinghurst.

Let the one who created the method explain it :wink: That way you get the correct info from the begining.
 

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I agree with the comment that you shouldn't feed a dog or cat food containing by-products, but most vet recommended foods are actually quite terrible. One look at the ingredient list and you'd see they aren't much better than store brand foods, just a lot more expensive.

Also, you say that feeding raw food isn't good because of the risk of salmonella and e. coli. Dogs and cats have very strong digestive systems and process food much more quickly than we do. They were made to eat raw food. Think about the strays that are surviving on mice, birds, and anything they find on the side of the road... a lot of them seem healthier than the ones who are getting commercial food.

Just a few things to think about :)
 
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