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Discussion Starter #1
My 3 cats have been on the raw diet for the last few weeks. However, my littlest one has been throwing up her meals the last 3 days. Every raw piece she eats comes up 15 minutes later. I don't know if she is having problems digesting the raw meat now or what. I fed her some canned food and she ate it just fine without puking (i know canned isnt good but my eldest cat had fatty liver and i am absolutely obsessed that all three cats eat their meals now). I'm going to give her canned for the next few days but I don't know what could be the problem with her and the raw food all of a sudden. :(
 

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What euphoria said^^^
Many cats will upchuck cold meat and many cats will eat way too fast and then throw up. If those are not problems then try a different type of meat, like pork or beef. Is she still going to the bathroom normally and everything?

But there is nothing wrong with a high quality canned food so don't feel bad for that :wink:
 

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Yeah, my cats are doing the same :( Don't think I'll be feeding raw anymore. Will try one more time tonight and if it happens again I'm going back to the high quality canned food. I know my meat wasn't cold for sure. It seems like there are a lot of benefits but there are too many risks involved. And my cats aren't toys where I can just play with their health. I will punish myself for the rest of my life if something happens to them like a bacterial infection. OK maybe I am overreacting. But yeah, I'll try one more time.
 

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catlady2010 said:
Yeah, my cats are doing the same :( Don't think I'll be feeding raw anymore. Will try one more time tonight and if it happens again I'm going back to the high quality canned food. I know my meat wasn't cold for sure. It seems like there are a lot of benefits but there are too many risks involved. And my cats aren't toys where I can just play with their health. I will punish myself for the rest of my life if something happens to them like a bacterial infection. OK maybe I am overreacting. But yeah, I'll try one more time.
If you go into raw thinking like those last few sentences, it won't work. :) I think perhaps you are best served forgetting the raw and sticking to the canned. Sometimes, we set ourselves up to fail by thinking negatively. It truly happens! Don't feel bad, just stay with the best foods you can. :)

And just so you know... I do not think my cats are toys either. That I "play with their health".. infact, I feed the best thing out there (raw) because I know that it is the BEST for their health. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm not sure if it's too cold. It is definitely possible. I usually just take it out of the fridge, cut it up, and give it to her. (or sometimes i put it in warm water to thaw and give it to her). I could try leaving it out a little longer so it warms up a little. I definitely think she could be eating too fast but I'm not sure how I can control it. I changed all three cat meal portions to three times a day to help the eating too fast problem. My other kitten threw up bc she ate too fast and she hasnt done it since. But the little kitten hasn't really figured it out not to eat too quick yet. I've just been giving her some canned food (which she is also eating like there is no tomrw). I feed the cats regularily so I'm not sure why shes so eager to feast. (I feed her 3% a day...she isnt actually a kitten I just call her one)
 

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How old are they.. maybe I missed that. if they are super young, maybe try feeding them even more often, if possible? Or if you sit and watch them, maybe you can give meat on a bone (like a leg, so they cant eat the boney part but work at getting the meat off?).
 

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Muzby, I'm not saying you're playing with your cat's life. I am so sorry if that sounded like what I was saying! I know people on here ESPECIALLY care about their cats very deeply. Otherwise you wouldn't have done it in the first place! I am just still iffy about it since I recently started. But you know, there still IS a chance cats can get bacterial infections and other illnesses regardless of the numerous benefits raw food offers. Of course, many vets say the benefits outweigh the risks. But it's still like taking a risk, somehow. I typed that RIGHT after I saw them vomit and was freaking out. And also saw bones in one of their stools as well. I just gave them their raw chicken dinner and they seem to be doing fine for now though. And also got off the phone with my vet who told me to "keep an eye on them" - and I was like "oh man, I didn't have to keep an eye on them when I fed them EVO." I'm just being all negative right now but that's only because of all the articles and some of the vets I've been talking to at the humane society I volunteer at who told me that it's very beneficial but they personally wouldn't do it.
 

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No worries.. just be careful how you word things. I know it is hard. Hehe. Sometimes I can be quite rude! :p It's an easy choice to me. My cat can just as easily get infections or sick from kibble or canned food that's been contaminated. I feel much safer knowing how the food is prepared, doing it myself.. knowing there is minimal risk. Than letting some big corporation who really doesnt care if my cat gets poisoned or cancer from their food.

When I first started to do it, I was hesitant too.. then watching my 15 year old cat go from literally dying infront of my eyes (so many problems) to running around like a kitten.. well... I know it's what's right. Scary, but right. ;)

Even canned can be supplimented with raw every now and then. There's no harm (in my opinion) in doing mostly canned with raw treats if they want them. :)
 

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Muzby said:
No worries.. just be careful how you word things. I know it is hard. Hehe. Sometimes I can be quite rude! :p It's an easy choice to me.
Well maybe it's not "playing with their lives" on purpose but it's definitely taking a risk (it hasn't really been empirically proven that raw diet beneficial). The benefits outweigh the risks but there STILL are risks. And that is called taking a chance in order to achieve something possibly great (but you don't know that because there hasn't been much empirical research). You see why I said that? Feeding high quality canned is being on the safer side. Wellness and EVO have never had any recalls. I am not against raw feeding at all though. I just need scientific research. Going on a few amazing raw feeding websites that contain lots of logical reasoning and not scientific reasoning are just not going to cut it for me. I am having a VERY hard time finding actual evidence that supports the benefits of feeding raw.

This morning I found out my cats potentially have leukemia. So that's why I am also worried. Cats with leukemia tend to have a weaker immune system and aren't strong enough to fight off the bacterial infections sometimes. But then again, VERY few, good veterinarians say a raw diet is the key.

There's just so much controversy among people who are educated, have licenses and study feline nutrition. I interact with 5 to 6 veterinarians on a DAILY basis. Believe me, if it wasn't a risk, there would be no controversy. It would be clear-cut evidence. No one goes around arguing against high quality canned foods. Yeah, there's a risk to everything. Even HQ foods like EVO and stuff but raw food is on a totally different level.

I continue feeding a raw diet because I "feel" like it's the right thing to do. I will, however, keep doubting, researching and seeking advice from people on here and different veterinarians. And if you feel like I am completely wrong and there are ABSOLUTELY no risks involved then by all means, bring on the evidence. I don't like arguing and that's not what I am doing. I am very open-minded and would like to hear different perspectives.
 

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brittany.. how big of pieces are you cutting up the meat into?

jango eats really fast too, to the point where he chokes eating instead of throwing up, but I'm having some success with cutting the meat as little as possible.. ie: a whole chicken thigh (de-skinned, but otherwise not cut at all) seems to slow him down a lot, as he needs to assess how to get the meat off a too-big-for-him bone before he can hork it all down.

I also think you might just want to try him on a different meat for a few days.. beef is tougher and seems slower to chew through, so that might make a difference as well, and then you could see too, if he's just reacting to chicken.

and I also find the salmonella/e-coli issue something to think about, but then I read something like this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17754681/ and I think "hey, a naturally occuring bacterium has to be better than an abortion drug/rat poison." ..and I'm sure Menu didn't have any recalls until the rat poison happened.

I just read your new post, and I do agree with you that a cat with leukemia and an compromised immune system may NOT be the best raw-dieters, as the risks involved with the diet might increase exponentially, and make it not worth it.

though, to say there's no controversy on a high quality foos for cats like EVO, isn't totally correct either.. I've run across several differing opinions on that. I think they're great, and am personally doing a partially raw, partially high protein canned diet, but I have read several articles that say that carbohydrates are actually crucial for the bodies of cats, though it seems they can't digest much of it.. not particularily scientific ones, because I'm really not interested in the subject, but the opinion that an 80% meat and up diet is bad for your cat is definitely out there.

edit: ah, I read that wrong. you said EVEN Hq foods, but raw is on a different level. well then, we agree!
 

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I found this too, on the feline futures website, probably worth a read.

The following are triggers for regurgitation in cats:

- PORTION SIZE: many cats do not tolerate eating a portion larger than 1/4 cup in volume (60g weight); with some cats regurgitation food if food volume exceeds 2 level Tablespoons (36g weight). The cat’s stomach, when not distended, is the size of a walnut. Some cats are particularly sensitive to distension, especially when the food bolus is fortified with saliva (adding additional volume). Once a certain capacity is exceeded, the cat receives a signal, prompting regurgitation. This is common in cats eating dry food, which has little volume when ingested, but exceeds the stomach’s capacity when expanding with the cat’s stomach juices.

- LIVER: there are many cats who will promptly regurgitate their food when eating raw liver (any kind), even if the amount of it in food is small. Although we have been successful in many cases to abolish this problem by introducing our liver powder (as part of the InstinctsPLUS formula), some cats will still regurgitate food containing the beef liver powder.

- RED MEATS: foods which prompt regurgitation in many cats, regardless of amount ingested, include raw beef, raw liver (any kind), raw heart (any kind), and most other red meats (like venison, elk). Regurgitation is almost entirely prevented if these foods are given cooked. The thought has occurred, that enzymes in red meat might be suspect.

- DRINKING WATER: many cats get thirsty after eating, and will drink water after emptying their food bowl, which will often cause regurgitation. We make a point to remove water bowls during feeding time, and put fresh water back down an hour after feeding.

- MOISTURE CONTENT: preparing the food with too much water (making it too soupy) can be a cause, and we have seen great success in feeding cats a firmer food in smaller quantities, and restricting access to water one hour after feeding.

- GRASS: some owners are not aware that their cats go outside to eat grass after their meal, which will prompt them in most cases to bring their food back up.

- FIBRE supplements are suspect of causing some cats to regurgitate.

- AGE appears to play a role. Cats eight years and older seem to be more inclined to regurgitation, although the same cats may have never before had any trouble indulging in any types of food or quantity. Despite the fact that cats can have a life expectancy of 20+ years, middle age brings physical challenges even for them, which may require attention.

- CIGARETTE SMOKE: exposure to cigarette smoke will cause regurgitation, and cats may develop a predisposition to regurgitation, or hypersensitisation through previous exposure to chemicals.

- CEREALS and VEGETABLES: inclusion of cereals (grains) and vegetables (especially raw) has long been established as a cause for cats to bring food back up.

- TEMPERATURE of the food when ingested may be a factor, with food being to warm or too cold causing it to be regurgitated. Although less aromatic, we have had personal experience with food at “sandwich temperature” being tolerated best.

- TIME OF DAY: most cats prone to regurgitation will do so in the morning with the first meal of the day which breaks the fast of the night. We call this “morning sickness”. Even if all the above triggers are observed, the food may still come of. In this case, feed no more than a teaspoon or two of food to your cat in the morning, followed by a larger meal one or or two later. Alternatively, you may be inclined to start your cat’s day with a few pieces of kibble.

Intolerance to any one ingredient in a diet can not be ruled out. Trial an error, or an elimination diet can help pinpoint sensitivity to a certain food or supplement.

Action plan for feeding a cat who regurgitates:

1. Try to determine, if your cat regurgitates mostly in the morning (”morning sickness”) 2. Feed the daily ration as small, frequent meals.
3. Try preparing your homemade cat food with cooked meat.
4. Prepare your homemade cat food without excessive water.
5. Use chicken, turkey, or pork as your choice of meat.
6. If sensitivity to liver is suspected, supplement with cod liver oil instead. 7. Do not allow your cat access to water or grass right after eating.
8. Reduce stress in your cat’s life.
9. Have an underlying medical condition ruled out.
10. Have your cat’s teeth cleaned to prevent inflammation of the gums and throat.
 

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Yeah it's all very confusing. It seems so much more complicated than human nutrition. I'm just frustrated right now because a stray cat that I admitted into our shelter last week was euthanised today because of a skin disease and leukemia. That stray cat was from the same area I got my kittens from when they were about 3-4 months old. I was dumb enough to get them vaccinated for leukemia and everything else but didn't get them tested for FeLV. Now I'm wondering if maybe my 7-8 month old kittens might have it. The love of my lives :( I just started crying when I found out the stray cat had leukemia because for all I know, my kittens are most likely related to her somehow. I just found this out today. I don't know whether to continue the raw diet or not. I heard it helps build immunity but then since they're compromised, they are at risk of infection. I HOPE they don't have it. I will of course get them tested but that will be in one or two weeks as I am a poor unemployed college student right now and can't afford to pay the 70-80 bucks at the moment :(

All I have to do is when I find out they have it, keep giving them the best life possible. Helping out other animals in my community and at the shelters to give them the best life possible too. I have to be grateful that I at least rescued them off of the streets where they would have suffered and starved. I have gotten so attached to them in these four months. OK I am already tearing up and writing a eulogy when I don't even know if they have it or not lol. I'll stop.

EDIT: My main concern here is, should I really continue to feeding these two 8 month old kittens a raw diet when I have no idea whether they're positive or not? This journal states that cats with leukemia should be kept on a raw meat diet http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:95J ... clnk&gl=us
 

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I'm sorry to hear that.. though keep your head up, you don't know until you know, right? and thinking positive really can't go wrong, especially since the cat could have been roaming, been recently infected, or been patient zero in that area and no other kitties there have it yet. who knows, right?

I'm pretty certain that I've read that Acidophilus helps prevent e.coli, salmonella, and several other bacteriums from "sticking" to the intestines.

http://taintedfood.net/aboutsalmonella.aspx

there's a (clearly biased towards a product) article that does actually say the same thing, so at least I'm not just making things up in my mind.

adding some acidophilus couldn't hurt, anyways, if you want to keep them on the raw..

here's a technical thing, that cusps on the edge of science-speak I can understand, but I'm fairly certain shows positive digestive environment and immune system improvements with the addition of acidophilus in cats.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17822412
 

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Yeah I was going to go out and get acidophilus, a lot of people recommended that. So just add some to their raw food for every meal? I wasn't sure if probiotics could be a permanent supplement for every meal.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm sorry you are also having so many problems Catlady. I tried giving her fish today. It turns out the problem is that shes stopped chewing her food. I gave her huge piece and she threw them back up...WHOLE. I gave her little pieces and she threw them back up whole. If i give her a piece to big to swallow, she just licks it and walks away. I don't understand why these last couple days she just forgot to chew her food. She is literally just sucking it up. I have no idea how to fix this. I am very determined to stay on the RAW diet. I am very optimisstic about the benefits and obvious logic of the diet. My other 2 cats are doing amazing. The one having the problems is about 9 mos. I tried giving her 5% but she could only finish 2.5-3% so I took down her portions. (don't worry she isn't losing weight so shes at the right portion) I've tried all size pieces to work up her jaw and she was doing great until the last few days where she just forgot how to chew...this is seriously stressful :(
 

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how about bashing it with a tenderizer to make it seem more "chewed" but without really breaking it up? might encourage the eating..??

I don't have a lot of ideas to be honest.. muzby's idea of holding onto the food seems doable, like it might actually work, but other than that or bashing it, I am at a loss.
 
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