[Ktns]

I joined this forum because I am in desperate need of help with this situation. Ive done so much searching and Im at my wits end.

Cats involved:

Chloe - kitten
Darc - 9 yrs
Chii - 10 yrs

My husband works nights at a jail here in town, and he recused a kitten(Chloe) from freezing temperatures and certain death one night. He brought her home after taking her to the vet, and we kept her in our spare bathroom for 3 or 4 weeks until she was healthy and ready to be part of the family. We moved her from the bathroom to another room we have with windowed doors, so she could meet the other cats a little more face to face, but still safely. We then let her roam around the house a bit, then let the others out so they could share scents, etc. All the normal things youre supposed to do.

Things were a little shaky at first, but it wasnt long until Darc and Chloe became fast friends. She brought out the kitten in him and are now best friends. Chii however... will take to attacking Chloe to the point where Chloe pees and defecates out of sheer fear. Chii also managed to bite Chloe and her leg got infected (shes fine now after some Orbax).

My husband and I are at our wits end. It is so heartbreaking to hear Chloe scream until we can break Chii from her. It doesnt happen every moment, but we cant leave them alone, and we have to separate our cats when we sleep. We have tried to keep Chloe and Chii happy, treated and played with when they are around each other so Chii doesnt associate bad feelings with Chloe. This didnt work. We now are at the punishment phase where after Chii has attacked Chloe, she gets a quick cold shower. It has gotten to the point where Chii will no longer run off when we yell, she will get in as many blows as she can before one of us can manage to get to her. Water bottles and spanking dont seem to help either.

Chloe is very near and dear to us. She is Darc's best friend, she is an amazing kitten, we have spent hundreds to keep her in good health, and it is not an option to just give her up. we even tried that defuser of FeliWay.

We have had Chloe now since before Thanksgiving, and this behaviour only seems to persist.

Any help is much appreciated... tho please, at this point we need help, not opinions or other unfounded theories. =(

 

[mandr]

I can't say spray bottles ever worked for me and I absolutely disagree with spanking your cat. Never resort to anything physical as it won't work and is unfair to the cat. Your elder cat is acting out because of the new little usurper. I did extensive research before adding a second cat and learned that older cats react better to a younger fixed cat of the opposite gender. This could be why the male is fine with the kitten.

Are your cats fixed? In the case of the kitten, when she is old enough, this may help. The other thing I would recommend from looking into cat introductions is sometimes you need to go back and repeat the process. Put the kitten back in her safe room, allowing the older cat to sniff under the door, but no visual contact for a week. Progress to feeding the cats on the opposite sides of the door and work on reintroducing. It will take time. Good luck!

 

[ownedby4cats]

Spray bottles never worked for me and I would never hit or give a cat a shower. If things were fine before the kitten came along, try to think how your 10 year old cat feels. All of a sudden getting punished all the time, not really fair to the cat. I also think you need to redo the introduction, because if you have had Chii for 10 years personally I think you have a greater responsibility to Chii for her well being and happiness. Not that I don't have smypathy for what you are going through.

 

[Straysmommy]

Congrats to you two for taking up this challenge!

I'm not saying this is the best idea, but what I'd do is keep them in separate rooms at all times, door closed. The most urgent thing NOW is for the kitten to have a safe place to relax, sleep, eat and use its litter box. In a couple months (or years, or weeks, or however long it takes) when everybody has calmed down (including you and your husband, because your emotions affect their behavior a lot too), start little by little opening the door, etc.

It's not the best thing to divide the territory between them, but right now it's necessary as an emergency measure. If you don't have 2 rooms in the house, with a door that can be kept closed, then you have to rehome the kitten.

Lavish love, play and attention on both, they both are going through a very tough time. Punishment, discipline and other tricks will only make the aggressor all the more aggressive when you're not around. Beware of that, it's a trap many of us fall into. If possible, as much as possible, try to keep the aggressor tired and distracted with wand toys.

I have a rescue living in my bedroom, it's been so for 9 months. Still, better than back in the streets (only other option in my country). Things have gotten better with time, and I'm optimistic the (now occasional) attacks will one day stop altogether.

 

[BotanyBlack]

Since it wasn't mentioned.. Are both females spayed? if not the kitten may be coming into heat and the older one is getting aggressive over it. If they both are I would follow the advice above.

 

[Ktns]

Thank you to all that posted! Heres a quick response:

Yes, everyone in the house is fixed, Chloe just got her stitches out a couple weeks ago.

As for spanking, the reaction I seem to be getting is that of as if I were reaching back and giving her all Ive got. This isnt the case. It's light, but firm, and never ever on the tail/spine, more of the flank. But either way, spanking I feel, like with children, is often looked upon differently by each person.

We do and have considered Chii's feelings but attacking Chloe to the point of blood drawn is *NOT* acceptable, nor is it something a feather toy or treat can distract from.

I am all for re-introducing them... and the husband and I are going on a week trip here in a month but maybe you all can help me answer a couple of really important details on my mind about this.

We DO have 4 rooms in the house that Chloe can be kept in. The problem is, shes very active, and shes almost 6 months old and we really really dont want to feel like we are abandoning her and confining her to a smaller space as some sort of punishment.

Likewise, whenever we leave, we always leave Chii in the bedroom. For the most part she doesnt seem to mind this. Also, at night, I lock her in with me. I feel soooo horrible tho leaving Chloe all alone in the big house for 8 hours =(

How would we go about separating them? Give them each time out and about? Is supervised hanging out okay, or should we stick to absolute separation? Also... when we leave for a week, who should go where? We have a friend coming over to feed them every morning/night, but again... Chloe is the new baby and we dont want to ruin her personality by locking her up all the time.

The rooms we have available at our disposal:

1 spare bedroom which we keep the litter boxes in now. It has all kinds of things and a cat tree no one ever uses lol

1 'game room'. It doesnt have much comfort but we could easily add some, and it has glass doors so she can see out and others can see in.

(the other two are a little smaller and probably not as wise. an office and bathroom)

Thanks again for everyones help.

 

[bluemilk]

In my experience,eventually the youngster gets tired of being oushed around and fights back. And this usually resolves the situation. Of course,my experience is mostly with MALE cats. How are your trio interacting,exactly? Does Chloe want to 'make friends'? What's Darc's role in this musical?

 

[kittywitty]

I know you said you tried Feliway diffusers but have you tried using one in each room? I have two cats, one attacks the other similar to your situation. I put a Feliway diffuser in each room and now they sleep next to each other and no more attacks from the aggressive kitty.

 

[bluemilk]

And that's 'pushed' around,btw.

 

[Ktns]

In my experience,eventually the youngster gets tired of being oushed around and fights back. And this usually resolves the situation. Of course,my experience is mostly with MALE cats. How are your trio interacting,exactly? Does Chloe want to 'make friends'? What's Darc's role in this musical?

As quoted from my OP: Things were a little shaky at first, but it wasnt long until Darc and Chloe became fast friends. She brought out the kitten in him and are now best friends.

 

[Ktns]

I know you said you tried Feliway diffusers but have you tried using one in each room? I have two cats, one attacks the other similar to your situation. I put a Feliway diffuser in each room and now they sleep next to each other and no more attacks from the aggressive kitty.

That would be 5 rooms for us, and extremely expensive. Livingroom, kitchen, spare room, office, bedroom.

We would really need one in that many?

However if its a last resort it can be done.

 

[catloverami]

With a Chii a senior female who is as aggressive with Chloe to cause serious damage, with the possibility she could kill her, I would seriously consider finding a good home for Chloe the kitten. Probably not what you want to hear, but it would be best solution for everyone, cats included.

 

[Ktns]

With a Chii a senior female who is as aggressive with Chloe to cause serious damage, with the possibility she could kill her, I would seriously consider finding a good home for Chloe the kitten. Probably not what you want to hear, but it would be best solution for everyone, cats included.

Killing Chloe seems a little extreme, unless she can do it in less than 30 seconds with trimmed claws. We never leave them unsupervised, and at most it takes us 30 secs to get to them if/when it happens.

Also, in all of my research, even talking to the vet, Ive never heard of such a thing, especially the older and bigger Chloe gets.

 

[catloverami]

The problem is she is beating up Chloe to the point of damage, both physically and especially mentally. A cat that loses control of bowel movement and urine is extremely frightened. This abuse by Chii not only affects Chloe physically, but could very well affect her mentally especially in relation to other cats. If you cannot keep Chii from attacking Chloe, then they should be totally separated. This can be very difficult and stressful for all....doors do get left open accidentally.

 

[BotanyBlack]

That would be 5 rooms for us, and extremely expensive. Livingroom, kitchen, spare room, office, bedroom.

We would really need one in that many?

However if its a last resort it can be done.

You can always try a feliway collar on the aggressive cat instead of the defusers maybe. That way she can carry it with her

 

[Ktns]

The problem is she is beating up Chloe to the point of damage, both physically and especially mentally. A cat that loses control of bowel movement and urine is extremely frightened. This abuse by Chii not only affects Chloe physically, but could very well affect her mentally especially in relation to other cats. If you cannot keep Chii from attacking Chloe, then they should be totally separated. This can be very difficult and stressful for all....doors do get left open accidentally.

Chii hurt Chloe *once*. And once was enough for us to look for help. You act as if we are careless and new pet owners, and its a little offensive.

Chloe still interacts just fine with ourselves and with our third cat. In fact shes always harassing our third cat to play, which he does with a happy heart.

Separating the cats is routine for sleeping and leaving the house, it's no different than dealing with a child. Yes someone with a child, some day might forgot to close the gate to the pool, but we arent those kind of parents. Yes there is a very slim chance it COULD happen. Theres a slim chance that a meteor will come hurling into earth and we will all die. But like most parents and pet owners, I am proactive instead of letting the what ifs and slim chances hinder me for life. I have already said they are on *constant* supervision, and really... in the span of our having her for almost 6 months, these attacks have been maybe a total of 5 or 6 times.

Also in relation to her interaction with others and mood overall... I type this as shes running like a spaz around the room and tackling Darc to play. While Chii eats breakfast not caring about either right next to her.

 

[Ktns]

You can always try a feliway collar on the aggressive cat instead of the defusers maybe. That way she can carry it with her

That is an awesome idea!!! Would it help for Chii to wear one too, do you think?

 

[BotanyBlack]

That is an awesome idea!!! Would it help for Chii to wear one too, do you think?

it can't really hurt... you can also try letting them around each other after a bath, when both have had scents washed away and are in the same state of, "got to fix my fur" mind

 

[Ktns]

it can't really hurt... you can also try letting them around each other after a bath, when both have had scents washed away and are in the same state of, "got to fix my fur" mind

That's a good idea too thank you!

 

[JohnMT]

I've unfortunately had quite a bit of experience with a similar situation. I had a male cat (18lbs, and not a fat 18lbs...) that was going after a smaller very timid female cat (8lbs) frequently. It was more of a dominant thing with him I think. Here are some of the things that I tried that you might want to look into.

Non-Drug potential fixes:
Feliway defusers ( didn't help much in my situation).
Sentry "Good behavior" pheremone collar (Had mixed results..worked for a while)
Spirit Essence drops. The self-esteem drops seemed to help the timid little cat a bit. The bully and peacemaker drops though didn't seem to do much though.
Spray bottle. No luck. Sometimes it'd temporarily break up the situation.
Bell collar on the big male. I tried this hoping it'd help the smaller cat know when he was nearby so he couldn't sneak up on her. It didn't work well for me though, as the big male was scared of his own collar, and one of my kittens wouldn't stop chasing him to get the new toy off his neck. This caused him to trample one of my other kittens, so she's now terrified of the sound of bells. My cats are strange...

Drug therapy:
Amatryptaline (spelled it wrong probably). Seemed to have some effect for a while, but then that stopped helping too.
Clomypramine (Spelled that wrong too probably). That seemed to help some as well... maybe more so lately, as he's still on it, but I'm not sure if it's the drugs or some other events that started helping

If you do try the drug therapy, I'd strongly recommend getting it in a transdermal so you can just rub it into the cats ear like a lotion. Amatryptaline tastes downright awful (yeah, I tasted it). Even mixing it with tuna, or beef soup which my male cat loves, didn't work. In fact one of my other cats licked the spoon I used to stir it up, and promptly gagged. The transdermal is so much easier on you and the cat! It's a little more pricey though.

The situation at my house has gotten better the past couple of months..by far... And I'm not sure it's due to the drug, or anything listed above. A couple unexpected things happened. First off, it's really freaking dry out here where I live in the winter. I started using some hand lotion that smelled like coconut. My little female cat loves that smell...so she'd always come by and get some pets, making her smell like coconut. Around the same time the big male started leaving her alone more.

The second event that may have helped is one of my other female cats (who thinks she is the alpha male) started dishing out punishment towards the male when he picked on the smaller female. If she heard the smaller female yell, hiss or growl, she'd come racing into the room and pound the living **** out of the big male (just smacks, no bites). She's small too (9lbs) but is definitely not shy about asserting herself. He's scared of her, since she used to pound him when he got out of line when he was tiny...so he seems to still think he's tiny compared to her.

Those two things seemed to calm the situation down in my house a LOT. The timid little cat is coming out a lot more, playing with the other cats, and things for the first time in a long time are getting to be normal!

So...where am I going with this? Well, you may have better results with some of the things I tried earlier, but I'd seriously look into some sort of scent related treatment. Putting something fairly strong smelling (maybe vanilla extract) on both of the cats so they smell the same may give you some good results...and it's cheap to try! Or even just putting it on the kitten to make her smell slightly different might have good results.

Good luck!