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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone else heard of this?
Its strange really because last week i asked my boyfreind if there was such thing as dwarf cats- he told me not to be silly, well we were both surprised just now!
We were watching a program on genetics- mostly genetic mutations, they had a guy who bred shynx's on there, but he had also managed to inbreed enough basically to breed a cat which has really short legs! its legs were tiny, it could barely jump, i was amazed but saddened at the same time. People who breed to change the look of something i dont agree with. Anyway it turns out with this guy, the gene that controls the length of the limbs also controls something to do with the heart, and so this cat is more likely to have health problems when he is older.

But really this program was soo cool! It had a snake who had 2 heads, pigs with 2 heads, and 2 brains! A cow with 6 legs, kittens with 2 heads, turtles with 2 heads, and some with 2 tails. Most amazing was the frogs, some parasite that lives on snails in the water with the frogs, and pestaside use was effecting the frogs growth when they went from tadpole to a frog it was causing cists at the joints, causing them to grow extra legs, some only grew 1 legs, some grew 2 legs with like 4 feet!
 

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munchkins

It's not a breed, it's a mutation. A barn cat in Texas had a deformed kitten, and the morons kept her and bred her, and got more deformed kittens. Now they're everywhere, even at cat shows. Goes to show once again that greed is more important than the welfare of the cat. Not that I'm cynical or anything! :wink:

Cheers,
Dr. Jean
 

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Dwarf cats

I saw one of these on a TV programme (not the one you saw, Zalensia, I missed that). I think they said it was called a Stumpy. And that its not a recognised show breed any more, to discourage people from breeding more. This could just be in UK though, the programme didn't go into that much detail.

seashell
 

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Facinating

Well that is facinating! Very sad, but very facinating. I have heard some strange things. A mouse with an ear on his or her back...but that sickened me. Experimentation should be shot!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The mouse with an ear on its back wasnt a "natural" (is i can use that word) mutation. That was scientists testing on animals, and they managed to grow a human ear on a mouse's back.
As to the short legged cat, yes i expect it wont go very far becuase they are also highly likely to have heart problems when they are older.
 

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hmm

the munchkin cats sure are cute, but they should probably stop doing that...

anybody remember that crazy lady that created her own breed of "floppy cats"? now that was just wrong. :roll:
 

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Are the cats healthy though?
I would agree with stopping breeding of these cats if they were prone to bad health.


But if they're otherwise fine I personaly wouldn't care. Like the whole polydactyl thing (the other well known mutation). I don't think I'll ever get a purebreed cat anyway for that matter.
 

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Munchkin cats have actually grown in popularity in some cases.

I first learned about them a few years back, and even now it can be hard to find solid and NEW information on them, most of what I have come across is the same jabber over and over.

At one time they were promoted as having no defects and a lot of people wanted them, a lot still do. I happen to fancy the munchkin la pur, but not sure exactly how keen I am on the continuation of breeding them.
The common question was if they suffer from the same spinal problems dashies can and the answer was no, but often failed to mention, or were not aware of this compression defect of the heart and lungs.

While I'm not thrilled about yet another "ornamental" breed, but if they breed for health as some claim is their goal, I can not be against it in it's entirety. As it is a genetic mutation, much like polydactlism, breeding for it intentionally or not, there will still arise cases.

However, what a lot of people fail to consider when wanting to breed munchkins, is that only about 1 out of every 8 or so kittens will actually be a munchkin, so then you are left with a horde of normal cats and no one to adopt them.

While the "breed" is part of TICA I do not believe if is part of the CFA.

As for the floppy cats. *sigh*
Their other name is Twisty cats, I feel it is a horrible and needless purposefull genetic mutation this one sick minded lady happens to breed for. There is a lot of information you can find on it, but quickly, kind of picture a cross between a cat, and a rabbit.

I have heard it is basically stemmed from attempted breedings of polydactyl cats together, but I'm not sure if genetically it would actually work that way, as I believe polydactylism is a spur mutation, meaning it's something far more complex then just breeding polydactyl cats togeth and expect their offspring to be the same. It doesn't work that way.
 

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I knew a couple (online) who breed Munchkins. They were lovely people, and told the members that Munchkins are just as agile as other cats. These people are experts on cat care, so I hope that is not the type of cat you mean. They are very well known and well thought of by breeders. Evidently this was a genetic mutation, because the husband agreed with me that breeding practices that affect the health of the animal are just plain wrong. In a litter about half of the kittens will have normal sized legs.
 

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Maybe I was a bit naive in my thoughts of munchkin cats... I had compared them to dwarfism that occurs in humans.

AngelZoo said:
Their other name is Twisty cats, I feel it is a horrible and needless purposefull genetic mutation this one sick minded lady happens to breed for. There is a lot of information you can find on it, but quickly, kind of picture a cross between a cat, and a rabbit.
Twisty Cat
I never knew this kind of cat existed. I have no problems with loving a cat regardless of how it looks, and I'm a bit uninformed on the subject... but something seems wrong about purposefully reproducing this sort of cat.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The reason that dwarf cats end up with eart problems is because the same gene which controls the length of limbs, also controls the heart. This is the same for most things, a gene which controls one thingy, 9 times out of 10 controls something else to.
 

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Spontaneous mutations happen. Look at American Curls and the Scottish Fold. Their ears do that due to hardening cartilage. Think about it- if it's hardening the ears what's happening in other areas of cartilage. The Rex cats are mutations (albeit amazing looking, in my oppinion) Do you really think Persians and other smooshed faced cats ever really existed before man started tinkering with their genetics and blood lines? Let's face it- most breeds of cats today have been altered by us in one form or another. For better or worse.
 

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These kittens are Munchkins.


This kitten is a Twisty cat.



As you can see, they are different. The Munchkin has short legs. The twisty cat has crooked legs. According to all I have learned, the Munchkin is very agile. I don't know anything about Twissty cats, except that their legs are considered to be deformed.

If it is not ethical to breed Munchkins, then Persian breeders should not breed for the flat face. Nor should Himalayan breeders. The Siamese was bred to have a tirangle for a head, with no stop at the eyebrow. (Mine are the classic Siamese.) There are doll faced (old fashioned Persians with a longer snout) and classic Siamese, like mine, but no judge would give them a ribbon. Every breed is bred for qualities that are supposed to keep the breed true and more healthy. This is not always done. On the other hand, nature makes changes, and there are genetic changes occuring with no maneuvering by human beings. However, this change will continue if it makes money. That is not supposed to be the first priority of an ethical breeder. The health of the animal should be the deciding factor, not money. Each person has to look at his own motive, and has a right to an opinion. I am just giving examples.

Think about the Dachshund, bred low, the Manx cat, the Shetland pony. The list goes on. Breeders exaggerated the qualities they wanted in an animal. There are tiny horses, the size of a large dog. If the breed is improved, fine. But if the breed has health problems like the twisty cat and and microthalmic eyes like some collies, that is not only unwise; it is not ethical and just plain wrong. In most cases a new breed is more expensive. That's the reason some breeders either change the breed standard or cross two breeds. Money should not be the first priority. The well being of the animal should be first.
 

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Yes I personally happen to like the Munchkin cats, I have not looked into much information on any problems with their GM. I do know a few people who breed munchkins and they are very kind people, who are not just interested in making a buck off their breeding. I hope they are able to breed out any draw backs this breed suffers from. They are said to have a great personality, I however have never met one personally to know exactly how acurate this is, from cat to cat.

About the twisty cats here is a bit more information from some other older sites.

http://www.delmars.com/kitcats/twisted.htm

http://www.messybeast.com/twisty.htm

http://www.the-cats-meow.ca/twisty1.html

Also one on "cabbits"

http://www.cabbits.8m.com/main1.html
 
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