Many here do not like feeding fish, or the things like potato flour, pea fiber, yeast, grains in general.

I personally would not feed it to Hachi.

Wet food doesn't HAVE to be given, but it is much healthier (higher moisture).

 

Why don't you like to feed fish?

Actually, it's the opposite - not only does dry food not have to be given, it is far inferior to canned food for cats for many reasons. A little research will easily bring up some facts about wet vs. dry that are very convincing.

Are there any canned foods you can recommend for someone on a tight budget? Would it be ok to mix the wet food with dry or give wet in the morning and dry at night?

 

All that Oozma said.

 

Actually, it's the opposite - not only does dry food not have to be given, it is far inferior to canned food for cats for many reasons. A little research will easily bring up some facts about wet vs. dry that are very convincing.

 

GET RID OF THE DRY FOOD!!!!!!!!! You are putting your cat at risk for a host of health problems, including urinary tract problems, obesity, diabetes, and IBD, for starters. In addition (since you are concerned about money), they can be very expensive to treat. A urinary blockage can set you back several thousand dollars, for catheterization and an overnight stay in a vet hospital. It is far cheaper to feed better quality wet food than to try to cut financial corners by feeding dry and taking the risk of medical problems like FLUTD.

I read several cat forums, and am constantly SMH over how many cat guardians don't seem to be getting the message about the connection between diet and health.

Here is an excellent source explaining the concept:

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health
Feline Urinary Tract Health: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection by Lisa A. Pierson, DVM :: cat urinary tract health - this link includes an example of a cat with a urinary blockage that resulted in a $4,350 vet bill, including a week's hospital stay, and stricture (scar tissue) surgery.

About the fish:

Why Fish is Dangerous for Cats | Little Big Cat

Another great source on species-appropriate diets. This one tends to push heavily for raw feeding, but it has a lot of info on why dry kibble should be avoided.

Feline Nutrition

Dave's is a good brand. It is on a par with Wellness, only less expensive. I can get the 3oz cans for 92 cents, and the 12oz cans for $1.76 where I buy cat food. Wellness, OTOH, is $1.50 or so for 3oz and $2.60 or so for the 12oz. Wellness is Shelly's "treat" food. I rotate the Dave's and the Wellness with Fancy Feast Classic (non-fish flavors for both) - FFC is no-grain and low-carb, unlike the other FF types (Flaked, Grilled, etc.).

 

Cat Daddy Talks Cat Diet! - Feline Nutrition - This went up only 2 weeks ago. Very worth watching.

 

Thank you for the information and links. It's hard to know which sources are good sources to find correct info on the internet. But there is no need to yell. I am brand new to cats and wasn't looking to add a cat/kitten to my household initially. I was thrust into it so didn't have much time to do proper research before he got here, which is why I am here now. Now that he is here, I love having a feline in my house but is a learning process as we go along.

 

Please don't be frightened away by overzealous doomsdayers.

Thank you for coming here for help. Most of us are thrilled you've taken in Cheddar and Devon and are doing proper research to find out the best way to feed them.

The information in the links IS indeed good info, despite their very bad presentation. If you read them, you'll gain a lot of good solid knowledge about feline nutrition.

 

It's hard to know which sources are good sources to find correct info on the internet.

Well, you won't see any website cited more often than Dr. Pierson's. And she has the experience and credentials to back up what she says, as does Dr. Jean Hovfe, the head of LittleBigCat.com. The articles on Feline-nutrition.org all have cited sources, and a lot of them are written by vets who have carried their professional studies farther than the piddling excuse for a nutrition course they get in vet school. Too bad the rest of them who don't make that same effort are so blind to the conflict of interest so inherent in having a pet food company rep teaching about feline/canine nutrition.

And pay no attention to people who call my stance "doomsday." Some of them have actually gone through the very scenario I was referring to: crap food leading to crap health. The concept of preventative maintenance isn't just for inanimate objects like machines, it's for our own health, as well as that of those in our care who can't choose for themselves.

 

And pay no attention to people who call my stance "doomsday." Some of them have actually gone through the very scenario I was referring to: crap food leading to crap health.

If I'm the person whom you are referring I'd really like you to stop repeating things that aren't true. This is the second time you've referred to me feeding my cats crap.

I do not nor have I *EVER* fed them less than top shelf food. If you are incapable of understanding the words that are written then please refrain from commenting on them.

 

OK ladies...enough sniping.

Although I have to agree with the OP, there was no need to shout at her.

 

I personally would not feed it... fish shouldn't be fed in high amounts, and the ingredients following the fish are not very good by any means. For cats, things like chicken, turkey, duck, rabbit etc. are usually the best protein sources.

If you can, wet/canned food is MUCH better for cats. Exponentially better. Dry food is full of carbs and can never compare in the moisture content of wet food.

Don't take it personally with people yelling at you and being over the top. Everyone starts somewhere with feline nutrition and there are plenty of us here willing to help you in a kinder way. What's important is you came here asking for help and are concerned about your kitties nutrition.

Feeding a wet-only diet is best, but it all depends on what you can afford. Feeding a combination of wet and dry is better than just dry if a wet-only diet isn't something you can do right now. We all do the best we can! Let us know how much you're comfortable spending and if a wet-only diet is possible or what you're comfortable with, and we can definitely help you with some brands to suggest. Or, those links on feline nutrition can give you plenty of great wisdom on feline nutrition to help you decide for yourself.

 

My main concern is not only about money, but I am a full-time student trying to make ends meet so it does unfortunately play a part in what I can afford. I am almost done, one more term left, then off to find a job and not have to worry about price of food for my pets. Sometimes life throws curve balls and you have to make due with what you got. I'm also not trying to cut corners feeding dry food. Like I mentioned before, cats are new to me and I didn't know that it's not recommended. Now that I know, I will get some canned and might have to do both for the time being until i'm done school or win the lottery.

I'm not looking for drama, i'm just a newbie. My kitten was not planned. I have been caring for some ferals and one had babies in my shed before I was able to trap her to get her spayed. One was cast aside at about 10 days old so I decided to help and brought him in my house and bottle fed him and weaned him to eat on his own. He's now about 13 weeks old. I have to learn as I go along as I have always done research before bringing in animals. My experience has only been dogs thus far and by the sounds of it, they have very different needs. Hopefully I don't screw up too badly and cause him health problems, it's not my intention.

If anyone can give suggestions on good wet foods, I can look for prices around my area. I will also read the links given.

 

Just remember that WHATEVER you decide to feed, they'll be 200X better off with you than if you had left them.

All you need is to do the best you can with what you have and you'll be doing it all perfectly.

 

Everything MowMow said... I agree 100%! :mrgreen:

 

Cheddar,
When you look at canned foods for your kitten, look at the ingredient list. Try to choose ones that are grain-free to begin with....that is one of the best places to start. You may want to start with one flavour (eg turkey or chicken or duck.....from some of what I have read for raw feeding, duck is one of the better choices...so it should be for wet food as well). Given your budget limitations....just start with the grain-free and, when you can afford it, then come back and ask again and we can help you with healthier (more expensive) choices.

 

Somehow in the old days I had cats live to 16 and be healthy while I fed them dry and 9-lives with other things added in that each cat liked like chicken liver. Well this time around I did heed the information on the forum and have transitioned to wet. But yesterday after a very long day and driving a total of 5 hours, I got home and gave them EVO dry. (the thought kitty crack was running though my head and they loved it) I keep the dry for treats and sometimes to sprinkle a little on top to get my male to eat the canned. I started with Trader Joe's which isn't as good as what I feed them now. I know other's have pointed out that larger cans of better quality food can actually be cheaper. This doesn't work for my fussy cat. My thought is you read up, get educated and then do the best you can. Salmon is good for people but I know that many can't afford the high price of a piece of fresh caught Alaskan salmon. Organic vegetables and fruit are desired but look at the price difference. I can't afford the chicken at Trader Joe's so I probably am eating some hormones. We do what we need to do to considering all parts of life. I love this cat forum but I sure would never want to discourage any person from having a cat because they can't afford the "ideal." I know I don't eat ideally all the time and my cats probably won't either.

 

Don't feel bad Cheddar, I totally understand as a college student trying to work part time to pay for my living and my pets. We are all trying to do the best we can in the situation we're in, so don't let people guilt-trip you when you're just trying to do the best you can. What matters is you're here and wanting to do your best!

If you're on a budget, feeding a mixture of wet and dry may be best for you. Some good brands of grain-free dry food that are easy on the budget are Taste of the Wild and Merrick. Merrick is my personal favorite and I find it on sale for about $12, and Taste of the Wild is even cheaper I do believe.

As for wet, if you're on a budget, there are flavors of Fancy Feast that are grain-free and don't have unnecessary grains, vegetables, fruits, etc. These are usually the classic varieties. They do have by-products which many people badger FF for, but it's a good start because it is grain-free. Here's a great link for the flavors of Fancy Feast that are low in carbs and wheat gluten free: http://mybeaconvet.com/clients/10103/documents/FANCY_FEAST_VARIETIES.pdf

What I usually do in months that I'm hurting financially is alternate between Merrick, Soulistic (Petco exclusive), and Fancy Feast grain-free foods. Another decent brand of food that is cheaper is Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's soul. Petsmart also has a brand of food called Authority that isn't grain-free, but is of decent quality with no by-products and it is very cheap per oz.

I hope this helps! Believe me, you won't screw up. You've already given Cheddar a great life and are just learning along the way. Believe me, I've gotten to where I am only because I've learned through trial and error with my past family cats.

 

It definitely is a learning experience and you sound like youre doing a good job. I can relate to your anxiety about feeding and doing the right thing. The advice from MowMow and others is good, I have done a lot of research in a short time - there is a lot out there to filter through but you will get there. And the "premium" food is not always the best so you can get a resonable food for a reasonable price

 

Well it's Official! Cheddar, you've just been involved (not by choice, ) in your first "Food Fight"!
YEP! Your an Official Member now!!
There REALLY is a learning curve about foods, and so much more is now known, than even 20 years ago!!
Bottom line, learn everything you can, and then make your OWN (informed) decision...
AND...So much is going to depend on your cats...WE might want them to eat healthy...but THEY have a different idea!
Sharon

 

Well it's Official! Cheddar, you've just been involved (not by choice, ) in your first "Food Fight"!

:lol: I feel honoured. :lol:

I was able to find the fancy feast classics for a decent price so will go and pick some up tomorrow. I'll keep searching around for other brands that I can afford right now.

I also read through all the links given, pretty long reads but very informative.

One last question, do I have to give a kitten wet food or is there not much difference between adult and kitten? I know with some higher grade dog foods, it's basically the same between adult and puppy. Also, is it recommended to do a rotation on foods often?

 

And we may want to eat healthy ourselves, but our thighs have different ideas, and march our bums right over to the fridge! :grin:

 

Mine are walking me to the freezer...for...Ice Cream!!

 

My fat thighs think that right now it's time to drive over to Micky D's for an ice cream cone....

 

I got Jack-in-the-Box coupons in the mail yesterday for - omg, my #1 fast food weakness - Ultimate Bacon Cheeseburgers.

In San Diego, after 9 p.m., it's buy-one-get-one-free burgers at McD's. I haven't given in yet, I just keep hearing the commercials.

 

I got Jack-in-the-Box coupons in the mail yesterday for - omg, my #1 fast food weakness - Ultimate Bacon Cheeseburgers.

Carls Junior's...
However, I really think they need more "Equal Opportunity" for us gals, to be able to drool over "Hunky" guys!! (Their advertisements!)

 

I couldn't decide between chocolate or vanilla so I passed Micky Ds and went to Wendy's for a Frosty. 1/2 vanilla and 1/2 chocolate.

I also scored a leftover snack bag of cheetos from the car. I keep them in the car so I don't eat ALL of them before they ever get to work for lunch (and if i leave them at work Ill scarf them in the afternoon when it gets quiet).

Oh and I love Carl's Jr.... I'm sad that one of their burgers is 3 days worth of sodium for me. I tried eating them and my BP jumped up to stroke level in 2 hours. I miss them...

 

I meant Jack in the Box. 2190 mg sodium for one of those. I get 1200 per day. So no QUITE 2 days worth.

 

Personally, I don't worry about kitten vs cat. Neelix eats what Mow and Book do with the exception of 1/4 C kitten kibble each day in his treat ball. That will be eliminated once this bag runs out, I just like to make sure the kittens get enough nutrients.

The way I look at it, there are no kitten mice and adult mice . Kittens eat what mom brings home.

So, just as long as they get enough to eat it doesn't matter.. imo.

 

I was looking at some more wet foods. This one doesn't have fish and was wondering if it's a decent food. I could contact them to get more information on what liver and meat by-products they use.

Also, i'm assuming it's best to alternate different proteins and such. Am I right? So, do I need to do slow transitions every time I switch from chicken to beef to turkey? or would their digestive systems be able to handle the change after a while? Sorry about so many questions.

LIVER, CHICKEN, MEAT BY-PRODUCTS, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCTS, NATURAL FLAVOURS, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SODIUM TRIPOLYPHOSPHATE, GUMS, COLOUR, MINERALS, DRIED YAM, METHIONINE, DEXTROSE, SALT, D-XYLOSE, L-CYSTEINE, VITAMINS, ERYTHORBIC ACID, GLYCINE, TAURINE, SODIUM NITRITE, SUFFICIENT WATER FOR PROCESSING


MEAT BY-PRODUCTS, CHICKEN, LIVER, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCTS, NATURAL FLAVOURS, CALCIUM CARBONATE, SODIUM TRIPOLYPHOSPHATE, GUMS, MINERALS, DRIED YAM, METHIONINE, DEXTROSE, SALT, D-XYLOSE, L-CYSTEINE, VITAMINS, ERYTHORBIC ACID, GLYCINE, TAURINE, COLOUR, SODIUM NITRITE, SUFFICIENT WATER FOR PROCESSING


BEEF, LIVER, MEAT BY-PRODUCTS, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCTS, CHICKEN, FLAVOUR, MINERALS, COLOUR, GUMS, VITAMINS, DRIED YAM, SALT, TAURINE, SODIUM NITRITE (FOR COLOUR RETENTION), SUFFICIENT WATER FOR PROCESSING


TURKEY, LIVER, MEAT BY-PRODUCTS, CHICKEN BY-PRODUCTS, CHICKEN, FLAVOUR, MINERALS, GUMS, COLOUR, VITAMINS, DRIED YAM, SALT, TAURINE, SODIUM NITRITE (FOR COLOUR RETENTION), SUFFICIENT WATER FOR PROCESSING

 

Technically, any food that is nutritionally complete would be considered a decent food. I know you're on a tight budget and any food is better than no food...and that's the category these foods fit into.

There are worse....there are some that are nothing but by-products. These foods at least have some named meat and organs (liver). Contacting them to find out what meats and by-products they are using will not yield any more information. They use the generic descriptions because it varies batch to batch and may consist of any combination of lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, liver, blood, bone, partially defatted low-temperature fatty tissue, and stomach and intestines freed of their contents. The animals used may be any combination of cows, swine, sheep, and goats.

Chicken or poultry by-products include necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.

The other things to know about the ingredients in these foods is that artificial colors have been linked to cancer. Sodium nitrite has been linked to cancer, heart disease and other conditions.
I'm telling you these things as a point of education, not to make you feel bad that you can't feed better food. Feed what you need to for now, with the goal of improving it as soon as you are able.