[Nell]

My cats don't have the same ability to make choices and weigh the consequences, so I feel I have to be more vigilant about trying to do the right thing for them because I am responsible for them. I can decide to have the french fries and go to an extra exercise class to make up for it - Maisie can't decide if it's worth risking another UTI.

I'm not careless with my own health, but I'm even more careful with my cats' health because they're dependent on me to make choices on their behalf, and they can't weigh consequences for themselves.

Well put.

 

[purr machine]

doodlebug is right, and she's been reading about this issue much longer than i have. read "food pets die for," by ann martin and/or "not fit for a dog!" which has several authors (a vet, nutritionists, etc.) but dr. michael j. fox is the name i remember.

I will definitely have a look at those books.

However, I must say that I am extremely skeptical when reading any health related material that does not come from reputable sources, such as unbiased studies.

I consider myself a person who is well-educated in human food and health field, and I must say that some books by doctors, nutritionists, and health professionals on human health are full of opinionated, biased material that has very little solid ground, or a way to confirm their findings. I find that way too many people have biases, even doctors and nutritionists, and they will find a proof of their opinion anywhere. That is why I prefer peer-reviewed articled on such subjects, unbiased studies, researches, etc.

I did a bit of a search or articles that I have access to, and so far haven't found any ground for the accusations placed on meat by-products.. I hope I have no biases, but I have failed to find any reputable information at this time.
And, as you mentioned, sensation, huge scary statements are the things that drive book sales, and books have no review process. Anyone can write anything. So I am cautious when it comes to book information.

 

[cinderflower]

i understand your skepticism. i know all about vanity publishing and shady companies like the one that published, "the bell curve." i think they may have also published, "i, rigoberta menchu," so i would sincerely question any book published by that house. if you aren't familiar with it, look it up. the nicest phrase i can use about it is, "shockingly ignorant." i taught public school for 16 years and i know that everything published has an agenda behind it. i didn't read either book in an academic setting though, so i didn't research all of her cited sources but they're there to do so if someone still doesn't believe.

i was half tempted to stop by the purina plant over on I-70, because i'm pretty sure they have a rendering plant onsite, which is unusual (but purina can afford it). i also doubt they would allow me to just wander around watching them prepare pet food. a lot of companies just buy prepared mush and never question where it came from. in addition to that, rendering plants have not always been honest about what they accept to go into that whatever it is you want to call it. i'd call it liquified garbage with vitamins added.

i always wondered what they could be doing to dog food to make it smell so bad. now i know.

 

[Nell]

Ever watch the episode of Dirty Jobs where Mike visits a rendering plant?
That's what goes into some pet foods.
Dead, diseased, decaying animals, complete with maggots, putrefied flesh, and all their feces to go along with it. It's called "meat and bone meal", and tallow.

And that's just what they're willing to show on TV. He even says at the beginning of the segment that this guy was the only one willing to let him come into his plant and do the show. I wonder what else goes on in these plants when there isn't a camera filming...

It's on Netflix- Season 5 Ep 1

 

[RockyandLily]

Oh they definitely eat better than we do. Tonight we are having pizza and they are having Merrick Grammy's Pot Pie. They also get their exercise and sleep!

 

[cinderflower]

Ever watch the episode of Dirty Jobs where Mike visits a rendering plant?
That's what goes into some pet foods.
Dead, diseased, decaying animals, complete with maggots, putrefied flesh, and all their feces to go along with it. It's called "meat and bone meal", and tallow.

And that's just what they're willing to show on TV. He even says at the beginning of the segment that this guy was the only one willing to let him come into his plant and do the show. I wonder what else goes on in these plants when there isn't a camera filming...

i've only seen one episode of that show. i'm totally surprised that a rendering plant let him on site because most of them won't let anyone in.
roadkill, dead zoo animals, and in colorado when there's a lot of snow and they can't get food to the cattle, the rendering plants do a big business with carcass removal. also (and none of this is denied by rendering plants, you can look them up online and see what they accept)--used restaurant grease and rotten food they can't serve, rotten meat from supermarkets (that's why there's styrofoam and plastic wrap). they don't take time to unwrap stuff and sort it, they just dump it in and cook it.

the biggest controversy is whether or not there are euthanized cats and dogs in pet food. it's not a secret that dead horses, cows and chickens were used to make farm animal food. supposedly a lot of rendering plants don't mix those animals in (so they say) but it only takes one because these places are huge and supply a lot of different pet food labels. sodium pentobarbital is used to euthanize pets and has been found in the rendered product. they cannot find dog or cat DNA, but most of the DNA has been corrupted by the rendering process. the rendering plants/pet food manufacturers say it's from euthanized cows and horses. horses maybe, but visit a feedlot. they don't euthanize cows. if they're too sick to walk to slaughter, they drag them, or they use a bolt gun and call the rendering plant.

at the very least--forget about the cats and dogs, the other stuff is a really good reason for me not to buy any food with by-products, meat/bone/chicken/ANIMAL meal, animal digest, or animal fat. after everything has been dumped in and cooked at a high temperature, they spin it in a centrifuge to separate the fat. some of these companies' reps like to say, "protein is protein." fine. they can eat it if it's so good for you.

Oh they definitely eat better than we do. Tonight we are having pizza and they are having Merrick Grammy's Pot Pie. They also get their exercise and sleep!

darn--i donated 18 cans from a case of grammy's pot pie to the cat care society because the only cat of mine who would eat it throws up if she eats grain. the other two weren't into it at all.

 

[NebraskaCat]

There is no doubt in my mind. As I was putting out 1/3 cup of Science Diet dry and 1/4 can of Halo wet for each cat, there sat my bag of Taco Bell on the counter waiting for me.

My cats agree with the previous poster. I purchased a bunch of Merrick's and their noses were turned up the second the bowls hit the floor.

 

[Blakeney Green]

Grammy's Pot Pie is Zephyr's favourite food in the whole world.

 

[Iluvanimals]

I don't think they eat all that much better than us. My whole extended family is in the same general area and total we have around 200 acres, we don't have fences separating our land. We grow/raise most of our food. Almost 3/4 of our land is used to grow hay for the animals as well as corn and wheat for them and us. We have lots of horses as well as many other animals. We raise rabbits, chickens, ducks, and turkeys for show and use extras/culls as meat. We also have fresh eggs from our chickens and milk and cheese from our goats and cows. We trade some rabbit and poultry to a neighbor about once a month for some fresh beef and pork and sometimes some lamb or mutton(goat). We also grow our own veggies. So, I think we eat about the same as our kitties, the only thing being they CAN'T over eat and we can

 

[3furbabies]

I don't think they eat all that much better than us. My whole extended family is in the same general area and total we have around 200 acres, we don't have fences separating our land. We grow/raise most of our food. Almost 3/4 of our land is used to grow hay for the animals as well as corn and wheat for them and us. We have lots of horses as well as many other animals. We raise rabbits, chickens, ducks, and turkeys for show and use extras/culls as meat. We also have fresh eggs from our chickens and milk and cheese from our goats and cows. We trade some rabbit and poultry to a neighbor about once a month for some fresh beef and pork and sometimes some lamb or mutton(goat). We also grow our own veggies. So, I think we eat about the same as our kitties, the only thing being they CAN'T over eat and we can

Oh my! I would die to have that... You definitely don't have an excuse for not eating healthy

My cats(and dog) definitely eat healthier than me. I use to be really health conscious but have gotten lazy about it and particularly bad over the past year (bf doesn't like anything healthy so it's hard to cook for us both). I try to eat healthy when I can but junk is more convenient to be honest. I definitely want to get into eating healthier though again.


Sent from Petguide.com Free App

 

[MaxxCat]

I don't think they eat all that much better than us. My whole extended family is in the same general area and total we have around 200 acres, we don't have fences separating our land. We grow/raise most of our food. Almost 3/4 of our land is used to grow hay for the animals as well as corn and wheat for them and us. We have lots of horses as well as many other animals. We raise rabbits, chickens, ducks, and turkeys for show and use extras/culls as meat. We also have fresh eggs from our chickens and milk and cheese from our goats and cows. We trade some rabbit and poultry to a neighbor about once a month for some fresh beef and pork and sometimes some lamb or mutton(goat). We also grow our own veggies. So, I think we eat about the same as our kitties, the only thing being they CAN'T over eat and we can

I would love to be your next door neighbor. I'd like to eventually own a small working farm. My parent's had chickens when I was in high school. I loved picking up the eggs in the morning!

As for the actual topic: Maxx gets a variety of foods including many difference brands, such as Merrick, Halo, Friskies, Wellness, Fancy Feast. I figure that if it's okay for me to eat junk food every once in awhile, it should be fine for him as well.

 

[doodlebug]

I will definitely have a look at those books.

However, I must say that I am extremely skeptical when reading any health related material that does not come from reputable sources, such as unbiased studies.

I consider myself a person who is well-educated in human food and health field, and I must say that some books by doctors, nutritionists, and health professionals on human health are full of opinionated, biased material that has very little solid ground, or a way to confirm their findings. I find that way too many people have biases, even doctors and nutritionists, and they will find a proof of their opinion anywhere. That is why I prefer peer-reviewed articled on such subjects, unbiased studies, researches, etc.

I did a bit of a search or articles that I have access to, and so far haven't found any ground for the accusations placed on meat by-products.. I hope I have no biases, but I have failed to find any reputable information at this time.
And, as you mentioned, sensation, huge scary statements are the things that drive book sales, and books have no review process. Anyone can write anything. So I am cautious when it comes to book information.

Had some time to do some digging around for the articles that convinced me that pet grade foods are something to avoid. Unfortunately no peer reviewed articles; we’ll have to settle for the words of the FDA. While AAFCO may create the definition of what is in by-product meals, the FDA are the enforcers…or I should say “non-enforcers”.

There’s a lot to wade through here and many will not read all the links or make it to the bottom, so I’ll state my opinion first…these FDA policies basically say that just about anything can be converted to animal food (including feces) as long at its “treated” to make it safe. What those treatments are, I’m not 100% sure…most likely high heat. They say that animals have been feed these products for years without incident. Personally I think it’s just impossible to trace back.

After the treatments that are needed to make these ingredients “safe” I can’t imagine that there’s much nutritional value left. As a pet parent, I have a hard time trusting that all these “cleaned up” rejects are truly safe. And, to be honest, it’s all just really gross and I don’t want my pets eating it.

The info below just covers what goes into the rendering pot and produces ingredients like animal fat, by-product meal (any type), meat & bone meal, etc. There are other issues with the lower quality foods like fish preserved with ethoxyquin and preservatives outlawed for human consumption.

(Note for ease of reading, anything in blue is a Food & Drug Act or FDA quote.)

The Food & Drug Act states:

401.321(f) The term ‘‘food’’ means (1) articles used for food or drink for man or other animals,

402.342 A food shall be deemed to be adulterated--(5) if it is, in whole or in part, the product of a diseased animal or of an animal which has died otherwisethan by slaughter;

http://www.fda.gov/RegulatoryInformation/Legislation/FederalFoodDrugandCosmeticActFDCAct/FDCActChapterIVFood/default.htm


FDA Policy Guide: Rendered Animal Feed Ingredients:

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/UCM074717

For many years end products from rendering have been used to feed animals. The rendering industry utilizes packinghouse offal, meat processing waste, restaurant waste and animal tissues from other sources including animals that have died otherwise than by slaughter.

What? Didn’t the Food & Drug Act just say that animals that have died other than by slaughter are considered adulterated? Oh wait…the FDA has an explanation:

The Center for Veterinary Medicine does not believe that Congress intended the Act to preclude application of different standards to human and animal foods under Section 402.

Oh…I guess it’s OK, the FDA decided that Congress did really mean to pass the law as it was written. This Policy also talks about insect and rodent infested food being OK as long as it’s “properly treated”. What does that mean? They’re also concerned about spreading Mad Cow Disease…so cows with MCD can go into the rendering pot, they just need to make sure that the products created aren’t fed to other cows. Hmmm…aren’t cows herbivores?

POLICY:
No regulatory action will be considered for animal feed ingredients resulting from the ordinary rendering process of industry, including those using animals which have died otherwise than by slaughter, provided they are not otherwise in violation of the law.

So the FDA is flat out saying there will be no regulatory action for use of 4D animals in the rendering pit. 4D is dead, dying, diseased or disabled. Roadkill, euthanized animals, expired supermarket meats…basically any and all rejects are fair game for the rendering pit. They say that rendering processes were designed to ensure that the resultant animal feed ingredients pose no threat of disease transmission to animals which are fed the material or to the health of humans consuming their edible products (meat, milk, and eggs). I know I don’t want my pets consuming this garbage, although I guess we really can’t get away from it since they feed it to the animals that end up in the human food.

FDA Policy Guide: Diversion of Adulterated Food to Acceptable Animal Feed Use:
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074694.htm

This policy creates a request process to allow food considered to be adulterated to be repurposed for animal feed. One example would be “Diversion (after heat treatment) of rodent, roach or bird contaminated food for animal use.”

FDA Policy Guide: Moisture Damaged Grain
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074695.htm

This one allows for treating moisture damaged/moldy grains and using it in animal feed.

FDA Policy Guide: Recycled Animal Waste
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074704.htm

This one states that the FDA doesn’t endorse recycling of animals waste, but they acknowledge that it is a local practice in some areas and are leaving it up to the states to regulate. This one probably doesn’t pertain to pet food, but really? We’re feeding our livestock their own recycled crap? Gross!

Anyone need more convincing?

 

[spirite]

I'm too scared to read...but it's even more incentive for me to just stop feeding FF, even to my stray.

As for the original Q, most definitely what Blakeney Green said about doing for the kitties what they can't do for themselves.

I have zero interest in my own health: I'm a longtime smoker (I don't smoke inside), drink 6-7 cups of coffee a day and the concept of exercise makes me yawn. I do work out with a personal trainer every week, not for health reasons per se, but to be in reasonably good shape when it's time for the hip replacement. Being neurotic appears to keep me from gaining weight.

I am a pretty healthy eater, but that's not because I'm concerned about my health. I've been reading labels and looking at the lists of ingredients on processed foods since I was in college (so 25+ years), because food that's processed, fried, swimming in cream/butter/oil/sauce of any kind, or that contains corn syrup disagrees with me. So does alcohol, so I just don't drink at all anymore.

So most definitely, I'm more concerned about my girls' health, although because I can't get them completely off FF (YET), I'd say I eat more healthy food than they do.

 

[rinserepeat]

Such a good topic!

Oh, heck yes our kitty eats better than us! She eats organic, grain-free wet food...even her treats are grain free. And while this sounds silly, I'm chiming in with those who said that they choose the best for their kitties because their kitties can't make their own choices...and also they can't tell us verbally if something makes their tummy hurt or leaves them lethargic. So we're just not willing to chance it!

Mostly our cat eats healthier than us because she's not a human with socail eating opportunities! We eat fairly healthy at home...almost always plant-based meals with a small amount of grains....the only meat product in our house is kitty food! We don't bring junk food home or eat out daily, and we're regular calorie-checkers in the aisle of the grocery store. But once or twice a week we usually go out and have an indulgent meal, or are invited over for dinner with others. We're definitely social eaters when given the chance! And that's why our kitten is probably healthier. No weekly BBQ's with hot dogs, potato salad + brownies.

When I'm in the US, I always opt for organic...because the prices seem reasonable. Here it's too much for me. $18 for a head of organic broccoli? No thanks.

 

[tigre86]

Not really. I try to eat a balanced diet, with plenty of whole grains, veggies, fruits, and protein (plant/dairy based protein since I'm a vegetarian). If I get anything that's in a can, I look for things with the lowest sodium content and I measure out my portions. But, I do have days where I eat junk...sweets are my weakness. :3 I usually give myself one day out of the week where I eat anything I want but I try to be good most of the time. Doesn't always work out that easily though, lol. I was pretty bad over the holiday so I'm trying to get back into my regular routine. As far as exercise goes though...I only work out 20 minutes 3 times a week. I am on my feet a lot at work though, I spend at least four hours a day on my feet.

 

[Jetlaya67]

They probably are healthier than I am. I am pretty conscious about earring well, exercising and all that but by looking at the kitties with the beautiful soft fur and all that flexibility in their little bodies, I would say they are healthier. Plus with all that fur there are no wrinkles to be seen! But seriously, I do try buy the best food for them I can afford. No grains, wheat, etc. and they go to the vet once a year for a physical, which I don't do for myself.

 

[wallycat]

I am a dietitian, so by my very nature, I have always been mindful of eating whole, good food. That being said, I was just telling DH last night that I easily spend money on my cat food, bird food for the outdoor birds, peanuts for the jays (yikes, that is expensive) and go through sugar for the humming bird feeder (man, I remember when a 5 pound bag of sugar was under $1.00!!) but when it comes to our food, I quibble about buying organic versus "regular" stuff.

 

[purr machine]

It is very interesting to read all the replies
So cats eat better than people in their majority with a few exceptions.

Had some time to do some digging around for the articles that convinced me that pet grade foods are something to avoid. Unfortunately no peer reviewed articles; we’ll have to settle for the words of the FDA. While AAFCO may create the definition of what is in by-product meals, the FDA are the enforcers…or I should say “non-enforcers”.

FDA controls all pet food. Is there a human grade pet food? I guess that would have to do as human food (that pets can also eat)...

Otherwise, digging a bit deeper, FDA does control all pet food... So Purina and Merrick are under one and the same regulation. So half a rotten cow can be used in fancy feast, and another half in New England Boil by Merrick. Which now makes my choice even more difficult, because clearly they are regulated by one and same standards, and if I want to avoid giving my cat leftovers of another euthanized cat, then I need to avoid pet food altogether...

Then what should cats eat?

 

[doodlebug]

While the FDA may regulate all foods to the same low standards, the individual companies can have higher standards for their foods. There are plenty of pet food companies that indicate that they start with human grade ingredients. While there is no legal definition for "human grade", what it usually means is that their ingredients have passed USDA inspection. Of course, this doesn't cover the manufacturing process so while they start with human grade ingredients, the process is not regulated to human grade levels. So at the end, the food itself is not considered human grade.

At this time, Honest Kitchen is the only pet food I know of that has been given the approval to legally label their food as human grade. I believe that there are a few other brands that are trying to get the same approval, I forget which ones though.

Also remember that the worst of the foods are the ones with by product meal, meat and bone meal, and animal fat. Avoid those ingredients along with things like BHA/BHT and you're avoiding the worst of it. After that it's a matter of reviewing what the food companies say about their policies regarding quality of ingredients and deciding who to trust. At this point, there are a bunch of companies that appear to be providing good quality foods...but the reality is that we can never be 100% confident.

 

[cinderflower]

Then what should cats eat?

either decide which companies you're going to trust or make your own food. the varieties of weruva and tiki cat that i use make it easy to see that there's nothing in there but shredded white chicken breast or tilapia pieces. they aren't pate. i've always had a slight issue with pate because i can't really know what's in it, if you know what i mean. hound & gatos is pate but they claim it's "restaurant grade" (because legally a company can't say it's human grade food unless it's prepared in a human grade facility) and 98% meat. i think EVO has a 95% variety but i've never used it. i want to say that weruva is. it's in thailand so you can't really pop in and see, not that a lot of pet food companies let the general public in anyway. so i'd like to believe that H & G and wellness are selling human grade food, but i can't prove it and i'm not going to taste it.

it's cheaper to make your own than to buy high end food like tiki cat and weruva, and not cheaper than friskies and meow mix but the difference is so obvious. just talk to a cat nutritionist and/or get a recipe that meets dietary requirements.

i can't remember now which book it's in, but i seem to remember that high heat is the process by which rendering makes all that disgusting stuff "safe"--but like db says, it literally is stripped of any nutritional value so it's just garbage with vitamins added.

there's a video online somewhere called "a dog's breakfast" where they throw fish heads, galoshes, sawdust and used motor oil into a blender to make a point that it meets FDA standards for nutritional value. whether that's actually true, i have no idea but it illustrates the way major companies can make a lot of money from things that belong in a landfill.