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Discussion Starter #1
She is a complete kibble kitty, so the first day it looked like it might be a tough match. Backed off and realized it had to be done incrementally. First, only a few finely sliced slivers of raw chicken in her favorite canned food mixed with kibble. Then I reduced and removed kibble, added a little more finely sliced chicken. Little by little all the chicken pieces were gone too when I checked the plate.

Today, Ive been adding bigger slices of chicken mixed about 50/50 with canned and during her last meal she left some canned food and ate all the chicken. One more snack before bed and she will have eaten a whole chicken wing today. I figure in about 2 days, I think Ill be able to give her half a wing on the bone. I think she'll like that, shes already started to get used to using her claws to hold on to the bigger pieces of meat for the first time in her life. Thats only 3 days so far, and the first day cant really be counted, because I just slopped some chicken on her plate and gave up and threw it away after a few hours. Im happy!
 

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Congrats! :) Just make sure not to give her too much bone. 5-10% of the overall diet is all. So that means MOSTLY boneless meat. Sounds like it's going well!
 

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Isn't it?? It creeped me out at first (being vegan, the whole thing was pretty traumatizing for me at first!) but now it makes me happy. When I think that Lincoln went through ELEVEN years of life without ever USING the teeth god gave him . . . very sad. Hearing him use them - and so effectively! - really is happy-making! :D
 

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Indeed. Also, her meals seem to take twice as long. I think shes enjoying and will enjoy fresh meat.
 

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Oh, its done. Shes sitting their with a big ole wing between her paws chewing away happily. Shes a raw kitty :) Now to get her used to liver etc in a few days time.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Willie needs to do an honest days work!

Omg, she ate a whole bone. I put out a piece of meat on a piece of the thin boned side of a chicken wing and the whole bone is gone! Ive been cutting off the skin so far, how is chicken skin for cats? I know its full of collagen protein but thats mainly useless to humans...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Cool. Ive only been cutting the skin off to get her used to raw, now I'll leave little bits on and get her used to that.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Shes still a little picky about the skin, so I have to remove all thick lumps of skin, ankles etc (how perverse), so I give her a little canned now and then to supplement with fat. Trying chicken liver today, tiny slivers mixed up with a little of her favorite canned food mixed up with her chicken wing. Should be interesting. Still have to cut up the chicken wing in about 1 inch pieces though. She likes bone so I have to cut bits away because she'll probably eat all the bone otherwise.

Oooh, good. The small slivers of liver have vanished :)
 

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Yeah, Im glad she liked the organs. I still do a little coaxing when feeding her raw though. I often start off with one piece that she gets to lick from my hand until Ive caught her attention, then put it on her plate, which works. I also give her lots of petting and praising while and after she eats up.
She's too good with bones...swallows them completely...after reading some perforation warnings, I think Im going to grind them up a bit. Still picky with skin and liver though. I read one raw diet article that said all chicken skin should be removed?

After doing some more studying, Im not sure I want her completely raw - while Im sticking to raw for the time being (with a little kibble as a good night snack), I think what I mainly want to do here is get her used to lots of different foods while still young to make any decisions about her diet in the future easier to maintain.
 

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faithless said:
Yeah, Im glad she liked the organs. I still do a little coaxing when feeding her raw though. I often start off with one piece that she gets to lick from my hand until Ive caught her attention, then put it on her plate, which works. I also give her lots of petting and praising while and after she eats up.
She's too good with bones...swallows them completely...after reading some perforation warnings, I think Im going to grind them up a bit.
Nooooo!!!! Why would you want to do that?? Cats are not going to perforate their intestines eating the way Mom Nature meant them to!! Those warnings are usually from people who have NO understanding of a raw diet and/or from pet food manufacturers. The way cats eat bone is to use their teeth to break them into pieces - that may be within the piece of meat, so the piece seems HUGE to you when it goes down, but trust me, it's not. If it's too big the cat WILL bring it back up and try again, chewing a bit more the second time. Please allow your cat to enjoy chewing up her food and receive not only the psychological and physical benefits of doing that, but also the dental benefits!

A few links on this topic:

http://rawfed.com/myths/ground.html

http://www.rawfedcats.org/nogrinders.htm
Still picky with skin and liver though. I read one raw diet article that said all chicken skin should be removed?
NO, it should not. It may take a little time for her to get used to eating it, but she needs that fat. Let the cat eat as much of the animal as possible.
After doing some more studying, Im not sure I want her completely raw - while Im sticking to raw for the time being (with a little kibble as a good night snack), I think what I mainly want to do here is get her used to lots of different foods while still young to make any decisions about her diet in the future easier to maintain.
Not sure what studying would lead to this decision. . . if for some reason you decide later on not to feed her raw for some reason, she still will learn to eat commercial food. However, this is a much better way to feed her and you’re both doing so great! Why stop now?? Give her a chicken gizzard as a bedtime snack!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Oh, Im not stopping, Im going to get her used to as many meats as possible while she's still a child. I just want to keep an open mind about this, since there is controversy on this topic. She's certainly not going back to kibble other than as a treat, I think I'm more interested in keeping an open mind about for example raw food supplements etc. Wikipedia has a rather disturbing account of an experiment where the rawfood kitty segment all began to show heart problems after a while due to lack of taurine. Im also relating this to my experience of health diets for humans which has been a great interest of mine for many years. For example, I do NOT subscribe to the stone age diet, or the Atkins diets etc, which are also supposed to be based on what we ate in the wild, for several reasons. Thanks for the links, will check 'em out!
 

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faithless said:
Oh, Im not stopping, Im going to get her used to as many meats as possible while she's still a child. I just want to keep an open mind about this, since there is controversy on this topic. She's certainly not going back to kibble other than as a treat, I think I'm more interested in keeping an open mind about for example raw food supplements etc. Wikipedia has a rather disturbing account of an experiment where the rawfood kitty segment all began to show heart problems after a while due to lack of taurine.
Wikipedia isn't really a great source for info. ;) But I'm sure they are referring to the study involving GROUND rabbit. It's the one most often referred to in this area.

The problems w/ this study were two-fold: First, they used only GROUND meat. Grinding reduces taurine in the meat due to increased surface area exposure. See the 2 links I posted -- at least one of them addresses this, I think.

Second, they used rabbit ONLY. Rabbit is a fabulous meat for cats but is somewhat lower in taurine than other meats. This wouldn't have been a big issue IF they weren't also grinding the meat, but they did. If they had ground the meat, but used a meat higher in taurine for starters, it might also not have been a big issue.

This is why raw feeders recommend: (1) Never grinding the meat, but feeding it in as whole a state as possible, and (2) introducing as much variety as possible into the diet. I feed, for instance, the following over the course of a month: quail, chicken, rabbit, mice, venison, beef, pork. Some cats will decide they don’t like a particular food, but most will develop varied palates if given a chance. Even Lincoln, 11 years old at transition, eats all the above.

If for some reason (cat has no teeth at all, for instance), one must feed ground meat, then one SHOULD use a taurine supplement. And if you’re at all worried, you can just add one. Taurine is water-soluable, so impossible to overdose. My cats actually like it, so I sometimes sprinkle it on when I give them something ground (which would be only b/c I got it for FREE ;)).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ive read lots of different articles, pros and cons. I know about the argument for processed meat decreasing taurine accessibility etc. Some people even make similar cases for humans eating raw meat, sushi and also point to studies. I dont think Pottenger stayed to just rabbit, but he did cook and process the meat. Im continuing to read articles on the matter ;)
 

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The ground rabbit study is much more recent than the Pottenger study. Neither involved prey model raw or the correct ratios of meat/bone/organ. :)
 
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