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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I'll have to move the drawer to the living room today as my kids are back to spend this week and my wife disapproves cats sleeping in the rooms (even if they are not her children, she worries and educates as if they were).
Anyway, the kitties are growing at a fast pace. They turn 3 weeks old tomorrow and they already walk (although trembling on their feet and falling a lot). They also look at us and interact with our hands when we touch them (sniff, lick, hit with the paw, ...). Loreta oversees when we touch them but doesn't mind. Just out of respect, I always pet her before I touch the kitties and encouraged my kids to do the same.

Mandatory photo of the day:
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They will soon be able to climb out of the drawer... I already put a pillow blocking the room's door so that we and Loreta can jump/step over but would block the kitties from leaving (and falling down stairs afterwards).
 

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Why on earth would your wife wanna do that? Cats and kid will all be unhappy with that decision... Loreta chose that location for a reason, she feels comfortable there with her kittens. I'd think twice before complying with this directive... just my $.02, of course. :unsure:

P.S. That is a cool shot of Loreta watching over her kittens! She's a diligent mom, lol... ;)
 

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Just take care with keeping the kittens.........
I am sure you have far more sense than this one acquaintance of mine had years ago, but he brought in a stray pregnant cat, kept her kittens, and then brought in another, kept those kittens, all because he couldn't part with them, "they are too adorable!", and the last time I saw him (years ago) he was living with 16 cats in a single wide trailer and the place was badly overrun. There were more litter boxes than pieces of human furniture, and none of the cats were happy at all, not surprisingly.
I know from what you write you'd never end up like that, of course, so this post is only in humor.

Only saying.....it can lead you down a slippery slope! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Small update...

Giving reason to @Railsplitter ... I was afraid Loreta would be unhappy with moving the drawer. Wife didn't push more the subject and I just dragged my feet (diligently doing other choirs like laundry, car lightbulb replacement, cooking dinner) and the matter was forgotten. This morning my kid (who has a very light sleep) reported: Loreta climbed to his bed soon after lights out, leaving kitties alone in the drawer. Slept on his feet for half the night. Then one kitty called her and she went into the drawer and didn't go back on the bed.

As for @Mosi 's concern... It is kind of a funny story but I'm actually sorry for the cats and also the guy. Fortunately, I have 2 things going for me: wife and control of my money. Wife doesn't want more cats and even discouraged me from creating a cat house outside for the "ex-mommy" stray that I sometimes feed. Then, the money. The biggest one-time expenditure will be neutering the whole bunch, but I can handle it. Vets in Portugal are a lot cheaper than in the USA. Around 120USD for neutering a female and 80USD for a male, all included, in my neighbourhood vet (at current exchange rate). Then, if they keep healthy, it is just "small money" trickling down monthly.
In honesty, I would rather just have 3 cats, I was hoping for just 2 babies. I'm just not confident that the friend that wants one cat will do a good job. I wouldn't know how to select the 1 or 2 to go and I'm afraid of selecting "the wrong people" to keep them. If I keep them with me at least I'll know they are being taken care of...
 

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[QUOTE="HappyFather, post: 2916245, member: 231567"

As for @Mosi 's concern... It is kind of a funny story but I'm actually sorry for the cats and also the guy.
In honesty, I would rather just have 3 cats, I was hoping for just 2 babies. I'm just not confident that the friend that wants one cat will do a good job. I wouldn't know how to select the 1 or 2 to go and I'm afraid of selecting "the wrong people" to keep them. If I keep them with me at least I'll know they are being taken care of...
[/QUOTE]
Of course, you are right. I feel very sorry for those cats as well. they are fed and loved, but the crowding is crazy, and I actually ended my friendship with that individual because of it. I couldn't do anything about it and I couldn't stand to see it any more.
I also felt slightly responsible because I was the one who urged him to bring in the first one, a gorgeous ginger and white long haired male who was not doing well in the feral colony at all. Unfortunately, one led to another. I guess i thought he would be content with one cat, but he turned out to be a bit unhinged.
Whether those cats are better off than they would have been as feral, it's hard to say, but my guess is they'd rather be feral.

And it is hard to adopt out animals sometimes. I always want to check into everything. Get a reference from a vet, see the house the kitty was going to, have a couple long talks with the person to find out what their philosophy is about cats and keeping a cat happy. And even so, you never really know. If the person already has a cat and you can go meet that cat in their home, that will tell you a lot. Anyone who is not willing to go through your process doesn't deserve to adopt your animal. At least, that's my approach, and it would apply double for a baby.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
There I get another issue... I had a hard time getting one cat to adopt because I refused people in my house to check it (and being a semi-detached rang alerts on cat shelters a lot more than if it was an apartment). So, I wouldn't ask to check other people's houses and I know I could be waving a good adopter if I took the "refuse to let me inside their house" standard as a rule.
Chats are a good option. Then again, that friend of mine is a friend and lives with a guy and her adult child and the guy's cat. So, it would be a 2nd cat. Sounds perfect, no? But I know their relationship is not that stable and if they split she may not be able to afford for her and her adult child, much more for a cat. See where I'm going? No one will be perfect enough! I may get to a point where I might not even adopt out to myself! o_O
One step at a time. The kitties turned 3 weeks old today. They would not leave before they stop breastfeeding naturally and that would be closer to 12 weeks. There is time...
 

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No worries, HF. The kittens will soon develop their own personalities and you'll be able to choose who you keep and who you adopt out. Personally, if I wasn't sure that someone would take good care of them, they wouldn't get one. When we adopt cats here, we have to fill out an application with a whole list of questions. If they don't like our answers, we don't get the cat. Once you decide who's going, you could have your friends over, see how they interact with the kitties, and ask your questions.

You really are doing a great job taking care of your family, and am very glad you decided to let Loreta stay in your son's room, even though it was a bit sneaky! :D
 

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Ha! My last reply was a little late to the conversation because I've been trying to post for a while now but kept getting an error message. Ah well... the joy of technology. So basically, I agree with what everybody just said!
 

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HF, I don't feel comfortable with a strange person in my house at any time.
But, if it were required by the rescue in order to adopt the animal I wanted, I would allow it.

Now, another possibility is this: what about asking the potential adopter to let you see a Zoom tour of their house? They don't have to show you the bedrooms or anything, but enough to get an idea.

these home visits are actually very important in my world. I have done a lot of fostering and I have had a lot of experiences with adopting animals out. I have had it happen that I talked to someone on the phone, they sounded good, said the right things, and then I get to the house and it's so disgustingly filthy and cluttered to the point of being toxic and I don't even want to go inside. Or, they said they had a 6 foot fence and it's only 4 feet. Or, they forgot to mention they have a severely disturbed individual living in the house who tries to attack me, and who knows what they'd do to the poor animal.

Even a zoom inspection can filter out some of that, but I personally would never adopt out an animal if I or someone I trust had not seen the home. It can be one room or a mansion on an acreage, that doesn't matter. But you have to see it to know whether or not it is suitable.

But the main thing here is that you are not going to let those kittens go anywhere you are not certain of, and that is a very good thing. Once again, I will say Loreta is lucky to have you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
(...) even though it was a bit sneaky! :D
True! 😳 But it was a way to avoid conflict. And sometimes prevents rushed decisions. This morning she mentioned the need to move them again but it was different now, it was "on the week the kids are not with us we need to take care of it so that the following week the cats are no longer there".
We now have the issue "where to" because I thought the living room would be best (is were we spend most of our non-working time and has space). She believes we should bring them to the basement again (because I spend my working day in the basement and because this way they can't fall down stairs). There is only one window on the basement, on my office room. Other two basement rooms being a games room boy never uses (because I have a PS2 and not a PS4 or PS5) and the old maternity room that is not being used.
So many doubts...

(...) But the main thing here is that you are not going to let those kittens go anywhere you are not certain of, and that is a very good thing. (...)
I'm just worried I'll be like the people that didn't allow me to have a cat: too strict. For instance, the lady that was feeding and caught Loreta for us has 3 cats at home. She smokes heavily! When we went to her house to pick up Loreta, she smoked 2 or 3 cigarettes in 30 minutes. I read that smoking near cats is bad for them as the smoke particles land on their fur and then they lick and ingest nicotine, tar and other cancer-causing stuff. Would it be too strict to refuse houses where at least one person is a smoker? Where should I draw the line? This is kind of a philosophical discussion as, in the end, we never know. We can make our best effort and it is right for a while but then something happens to the new family and all our work went down the drain... Financial issues, divorce, an old parent that has to move in, a new baby born, all disruptive things we couldn't predict...

Well, to re-center a bit the thread on the kitties... They can now walk inside the drawer, they still fall a lot and the legs tremble but they go from one side to the other. (At least) one of the cats does small jumps and behaves as if it is hunting some imaginary prey. They fight a lot amongst them, paws, bites, getting on top of the other, etc. They also sleep a lot. They have tiny teeth and they already do their hygiene, licking their paws, belly, etc.

Loreta trying to stimulate a baby while it fought one of the siblings that was fighting and cleaning himself simultaneously
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A kitty cleaning his own paw (I love how they spread the fingers apart to lick in the middle of the fingers!)
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Cutie with blue eyes (from still being on milk) posing for the camera
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I know.....it is the most cute thing when a kitten spreads their toes apart like that. I could watch kitten do their thing for hours and not get bored.
Personally, I would not give a cat to someone who smokes heavily. And this is another good reason for seeing the home.
Just my opinion, but you are right about smoking being bad for cats. It is bad for ANY breathing creature, even plants.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
So, I went a week and a half without writing here. Lets go for some updates as the kitties turn 5 weeks old tomorrow!

They were in the drawer. They discovered they could climb out. Both to the front and roam the room and to the back and hide under the bed. This was a problem as Loreta had a hard time going out the back to under the bed too. And sometimes they had a hard time coming back. And sometimes Loreta would stay there calling them and they were not able to come. To reduce stress, we just emptied the drawer of their blankets and closed it. We added a scratcher with houses, a couple of boxes, more blankets, and they were allowed to roam the entire room.

They are super mobile, jump and run and are constantly "fighting" each other, trying to catch Loreta's tail as if hunting, scratching the cardboard scratcher, the blankets, etc. Photos don't pay them due honour and videos would be the way to show properly how cute they are now!

After asking questions here on a separate thread, a litterbox with absorbent litter was added to the room. I had first placed the box with Loreta's preferred clumping clay but a couple kitties tried to eat it so I had to take it out. They also try to eat the small stones of the absorbent but it should not harm them. I think that there were two small stains on the box a couple of days later but I have never seen them using it for the business, although I have seen them go there to play and lick and once we saw Loreta calling the kitties into the box. It should go with time.

A small note because it makes sense to what I'll tell afterwards. One of my neighbours is a cat mommy and I asked her what wet and dry food she fed. I then looked the packages and I decided to buy the same brand (on the wet, I was using the brand but a different line of product) because they look better on paper. Loreta loved the wet but was not marvelled with the dry. So I've been transitioning by mixing old and new on the plate.
Back to kitties! 2 days ago I also added a plate with dry food, that is the same brand I'm trying to transition Loreta to, but is for kitties 1 to 12 months. As soon as I put the plate on the floor, Loreta gobbled it as if she hadn't seen food in days!!! I read smaller letters and said it was also adequate for gestating and lactating mommies. No transition needed! So, I've been keeping the plate full and I don't know if all kitties have tried it. My guess is Loreta eats the bulk of it. I've placed kitties near the plate and I've seen two eat it. Let's hope all 4 go for it.

As I added dry food I also placed a plate with water in the room. At least two kitties (can't tell if the same that ate dry food) have drank from it, one imitating Loreta that was drinking. The imitator also placed the paw in the water and then was furiously agitating the paw to dry it up. ahahaha

The kitties can jump out of the room now. I'm afraid they may fall down the stairs so the idea to move them from the rooms' floor to the basement is gaining power... And my kids are back today, the boy can't sleep with the kitties fighting and running and hunting around his room...
Anyway, the kitties one night got all out and went to the girl's room. They ignored the stairs and seem to be happy between the two rooms, although we try to keep them in just one and Loreta agrees with us on that. She calls them when they get out.

Some photos, mostly of when they are sleeping as otherwise only videos can catch them...

Sleeping, 10th of July
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Milk on the 13th of July
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Exploring litter, 17th of July
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Nested between my legs, 19th July
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Sleeping, 19th of July, great teeth!
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