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Discussion Starter #1
Alright so let me start out with my cats. I have a year old tabby neutered male named Godzilla and a newly acquired lynx point siamese kitten named Skeeter, also neutered male. Previously before I got the kitten Godzilla was eating Orejin in the mornings and Honest Kitchen Prowl at night. Well the new kitten cannot eat dry food yet so obviously Ive been feeding him the Prowl. Godzilla is now refusing to eat his kibble because I think hes seeing the kitten getting prowl all the time and thats the way he wants it too. I put kibble in front of him and he looks at me like "uh whats that... Never seen that god awful stuff" and he walks away. :crazy I dont know if I can fix that scenario so Im wondering about feeding the Prowl and perhaps a raw frozen formula out there?? Ive been looking around but they all seem SO expensive. Especially to ship. None of the pet stores around me carry raw frozen. Ive only seen one carry some Primal bones. Ive yet to ask them of the possibility of ordering me Primal formulas but like I said they seem super expensive online except for the Chicken and beef varieties. The shipping is crazy though. Is there a site out there that offers better shipping rates on raw frozen? Or is there a more reasonably priced one besides Primal in terms of price per ounces they eat in a day? I just want it to be somewhat comparable to buying a bag of dry at 50 dollars give or take and it lasting a reasonable amount of time. The only other cheaper raw formula I saw was called Rad Cat. Any experience with this or is it a decent formula?

Heres a link to Rad Cat: RadCat Raw Food

Any advice helps! Thank you!
 

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I love Rad Cat. It's a wonderful frozen raw food. Another option for you would be a freeze dried brand like Stella&Chewy's. (you add water) You don't get the shipping costs with that.

And you could always offer canned for that second meal, instead of kibble. I'd eliminate the kibble completely if I were you, and just feed raw and canned.

I feed a combination of canned, frozen commercial raw (Rad Cat) freeze dried commercial raw (Stella&Chewy's) and home made prey model raw.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you! I wish RadCat had more formula options though. I read somewhere they might be getting rid of their lamb formula?? Sad face...

I've seen Stella and Chewys at a pet store here actually... Its 21.99 for a 12 ounce bag though. How many of those nuggets does an average adult eat in a day? It seems like a steep price unless they dont eat very many a day?

Also what canned do you usually use? I would buy canned if there was a case or two at comparable prices and lasting time to a 50 dollar bag of orejin?
 

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You're not going to get frozen or freeze dried raw at anywhere near the price of kibble, even Orijen. Not sure why you feel the need to feed frozen raw in addition to the Prowl. Prowl is a balanced diet and doesn't need to be supplemented with anything else. BTW...if you don't know it, HK has a frequent buyer program...there's info on the website, you need to save the UPCs. I think it's buy 12 and get one free.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ok maybe not near but reasonable... I guess Im trying to ask for what is the best priced frozen formula in terms of getting more for your money? Im asking about raw in addition to Prowl just for a little more variety. Honest Kitchen only has two formulas for cats (chicken and turkey). Just seems a little boring to me I guess?

Anyone ever fed the Bravo Blends? They seem reasonably priced but they are talking about supplements to add. Is there a good powder supplement out there that I could add to it to make it complete?
 

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If there's a boutique or mom & pop kind of pet store and they already have a freezer set-up, they would very likely be happy to order something specific for you. If the only things close by are PetSmart or another big box type of store, chances are probably really slim since they're probably not set up for it. In either case, it doesn't hurt to ask, but the smaller venue is the better bet.

My place doesn't carry Primal but they offer Bravo which is similar and per oz, it probably is more expensive than canned or kibble, but the cats tend to need less of it. My guys aren't 100% raw, but if they were, they would need about 6-10 oz a day. I add supplements to the grind and it works out to about the equivalent of $2.20 a small can because I have to my special hormone-free, organic, certified humane egg yolks and those aren't cheap. It's kind of optional, and if I didn't add the egg, it would be somewhere around $1.69 a can, and I'd need two of those a day. Probably a little more... but not a whole third can. Prices will vary by region, obviously, but hopefully that gives a bit of an idea of what it could cost if you can find something that doesn't have to be shipped and how it might compare to what you're getting now. That costs a lot more since they usually pack the stuff in dry ice and guarantee that it's still frozen when it gets to your door.
 

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(I didn't hit the edit in time.) For your second post, I don't know of any one powder supplement (which sure would be nice if there was one), but here's what I add to one 2lb chub of Bravo grind:

1000mg taurine
2000mg fish oil
400 IU vitamin E
100mg vitamin B complex
3/4 tsp lite salt with iodine
2 egg yolks

The powdered supplements come in capsules which are broken apart and emptied into a small container and the gel capsules just get thrown in whole. I dissolve in just enough hot water to mix everything together, maybe a couple tablespoons or so, and then pick out the empty gel caps when all their liquid is gone. Then I stir that in with the yolks and portion it out into daily serving sizes that go back into the freezer. Sometimes, just for variety I'll also get a chicken thigh or a bit of fresh wild fish and put little chunks into the bowl. Fish should be used very sparingly. Maybe every other month or so. With the chicken, I got some poultry shears that just tear into the bone and I can cut it up into manageable sized pieces and I give them some occasionally to see how they take to it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Yea I went to one little store today and I asked the lady if she carried any raw frozen for cats (because I saw she carried the frozen stella and chewys for dogs) and she told me she used to carry some about 6 months ago but sent it back because she never sold any. She wasnt very pleasant answering me so I wasnt gonna ask if there was a possibility of ordering some just for me. I tried making conversation about it but she wasnt interested :/ Havent had much luck with that store anyway. I'll probably try the one other store tomorrow after I go to work.

Like I said Ive been looking at the "bravo blends". But they say that you need to add a supplement and as far as that goes I wouldnt know which one to use. The Bravo blends include meat bone organs and a little veg. So Im just gonna guess and say I would need a supplement kind of like this: Premix for meats with bone

Anyone use this? Or is there another supplement people use with the Bravo Blends?

EDIT:
I posted before I saw your last one! Those seem pretty easy to add but where do you get them? Just people supplements? I think if I could find them in liquid or powder form that would be easy to mix in right?
 

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Yeah, they're people supplements. I get them at Whole Foods. GNC would probably have them as well. A well-supplied regular grocery store might even have them. They can definitely be ordered online.

It's really easy to mix in. As long as you don't mind stirring up a bloody mess of ground animal parts. Have to admit, that was kind a hurdle for me. The supplement part was easy compared to that.

I bought all this stuff at once and the initial expense was about $70-something. But it lasts for a long time. That's what prompted me to sit down and do the math, which is really not something I enjoy doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Alright so let me get this right. You dissolve all those supplements together in a little water then add the egg yolks, mix that. Then mix that all in with the meat?? Right? Second question. Do you use bravo basics or the bravo blends with the added veggies?

Thanks for all the help! :)
 

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Right. Well, I add the yolks directly to the grind because they don't need to be dissolved and stirred like the other supplements do. But that all gets mixed in with the meat until it looks pretty homogenous.

I use the blends because it also has bones, liver, organs, and hearts. And for goodness only knows what reason... veggies. The basics is only meat and bone and I'd have to source organ meat somewhere else which is more difficult and, for me, the most objectionable part of the whole thing. If you've got a source for those things and don't mind handling them it would be better particularly if you don't have to run it through a grinder.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yeah resources are slim here. With the fish oil... Do I need to be careful which kind I get? Some of them have vitamin E and other stuff in them. Im guessing I just need pure fish oil capsules?
 

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I've heard small fish or wild caught salmon oil is preferable, but my Whole Foods doesn't sell that specifically, so I just get regular fish oil. It breaks down easily over time and with heat and light so the best thing is to get capsules.

The only thing that should definitely be steered away from is cod liver oil because it contains high amounts of vitamin A. That's fat soluble and possible for cats to build up a toxic amount if it's fed in high quantities.

Sorry to hear about the owner of your local pet store. That's disappointing that she wasn't more receptive to catering to a potential customer. I just stopped by my place and was extra grateful that they've been so accommodating. They haven't been able to get in any Bravo foods because of the hurricane but they scrambled to get some alternate raw offerings and had Instinct Raw Bites on hand, so I'm giving that a shot this week. The picky little darlings are loving it at the moment, but who knows when they'll change their minds.
 

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Thank you! I wish RadCat had more formula options though. I read somewhere they might be getting rid of their lamb formula?? Sad face...

I've seen Stella and Chewys at a pet store here actually... Its 21.99 for a 12 ounce bag though. How many of those nuggets does an average adult eat in a day? It seems like a steep price unless they dont eat very many a day?

Also what canned do you usually use? I would buy canned if there was a case or two at comparable prices and lasting time to a 50 dollar bag of orejin?
Rad Cat is not eliminating the Lamb. I wonder if you read a thread I had in another forum a while back. A store had told me THEY were stopping the lamb, but Rad Cat is not, it was just that store.

I feed only one meal of Stella&Chewy's a day, to one cat. She gets 10 nuggets a day (rehydrated) and the bag lasts about 5 weeks. Remember that food has to have water added to it. 10 nuggets with water added is equivalent to 1.10 ounce of any other wet food, based on the amount of water I add. Each nugget is about 10 calories so 10 nuggets = 1.1 ounce of wet food=60 calories. Well, that's my figures anyway. I could be off somewhere I don;t know, but it's working for me and my girl who eats it. :)

My main canned food that I am feeding now is By Nature Organic. For some rotation variety I also sometimes feed Natural Balance Platefuls chicken, and Castor& Pollux chicken vegetable casserole (NOT the "indoor"formula). Werua nine livers, too. Those foods are all very high in carbs though, so I feed them only every couple of days.

I have other brands in the house but they are being phased out as they get used up.

Looks like my cats are all heading toward 50% raw (25% commercial, 25% home made prey model) and 50% canned.
 

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My two cents in regards to both Primal Formulas and Bravo!:

Primal Formula stinks. I mean literally - it smells horrible. It smells like a mixture of newly-mown hay and a sort of grassy rot, kind of how my lawnmower smells if left in the garage without being washed out.

I've tried several flavors of Primal Formula with my cat: rabbit, quail, venison, and turkey. They all smell like that mixture of hay and rotting grass, which can only lead me to imagine that they smell even MORE horrible and unnatural to my cat. They also look like hideous gray bricks of crap, but maybe that doesn't matter too much - though I have to say, I've fed my cat other commercially-ground raw products, and Primal just doesn't look right.

My cat refused to touch any of the Primal Formulas, other than a few polite bites of the first nugget of Rabbit that I offered to her.

In conclusion, I think the Primal foods are just WAY too high in "vegetable" content. The veggies are completely unnecessary, and I'm also concerned by them - my cat can't digest them, so how is she getting the nutrients and minerals that are allegedly contained in the veggies and fruits?

The Bravo! Balance products have the same problem. I got a "variety pack" to try on my cat (chicken, beef, turkey) and my cat wouldn't touch a morsel of any of them. They just smell too "vegetable-y". I also don't like how grayish the Bravo! food is either - if raw meat is looking gray or brown, it's mixed with too much vegetable matter!

I also wasn't sure if I needed to supplement either the Primal or the Bravo!, and neither company was clear at all when I inquired.

It would have been fantastic if my cat had liked Primal or Bravo!, as there are pet stores near me that sell both. However, I'm still firmly of the belief that cats don't need ANY vegetables, fruits, grains, or other green bits in their diets; any "vegetable matter" they allegedly ingest in their wild-caught prey is of a negligible amount, and is also pre-digested BY the prey. Cats can't digest veggies on their own; they lack the enzymes.

So, it looks like I'll be sticking to Rad Cat and Feline's Pride. Feline's Pride is an absolutely fantastic product - 100% meat/bone/organs, no veggies, and super-finely ground. My cat absolutely loves the Feline's Pride, and licks her bowl clean at every meal.

I also have purchased day-old quail, day-old chicks, and a variety of pinky mice. My cat won't touch them whole yet, but I'm working on transitioning her to whole-prey. I chop the quail and chicks into bite-sized pieces and skin them (it's easy to peel off the skin while they're frozen). I also chop the adorable pinky mice into adorable bits, and she goes nuts over those. Interestingly enough, her favorite ground-raw food is chicken and cornish hen, but she doesn't seem overly fond of the chick meat or the quail meat. But she'll eat every last toe of the pinky mice. >_>

As for your earlier inquiries about good grain-free canned foods - before I switched to raw, I fed my cat:

Ziwipeak
Weruva
Merrick Before Grain
Wellness CORE

They're all fantastic foods, though I'd recommend Ziwipeak the highest.
 

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The Bravo! Balance products have the same problem. I got a "variety pack" to try on my cat (chicken, beef, turkey) and my cat wouldn't touch a morsel of any of them. They just smell too "vegetable-y". I also don't like how grayish the Bravo! food is either - if raw meat is looking gray or brown, it's mixed with too much vegetable matter!

I also wasn't sure if I needed to supplement either the Primal or the Bravo!, and neither company was clear at all when I inquired.

So, it looks like I'll be sticking to Rad Cat and Feline's Pride. Feline's Pride is an absolutely fantastic product - 100% meat/bone/organs, no veggies, and super-finely ground. My cat absolutely loves the Feline's Pride, and licks her bowl clean at every meal.
Thanks for this. My cats are sort of iffy with the Bravo products and it does bother me that they put vegetables in it because that seems completely unnecessary to me. But that's what they currently carry at the local pet store, (supply problems due to hurricane notwithstanding) so that's what I tried first. I've been developing a relationship with the owner though and she might be willing to order Feline's Pride for me. I'll definitely ask about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for the insight LakotaWolf. I did some pricing. Felines Pride is cheaper. Do you order directly from the site or does you local pet store order it for you?
 

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Yeah, I wish my local pet stores carried more than just Primal and Bravo :{

I live in a pretty large suburban area, so there are actually a TON of pet stores around me, everything from small mom-and-pop stores to several chain stores, and they all seem to have the same raw selection... when they have a raw selection at all! >_>

Some of them carry Nature's Variety, which makes me die a little inside because it includes Montmorillonite Clay. Nooo, I don't think my cat would eat clay in a "natural" environment, I don't care how miraculous this clay is supposed to be... and by feeding raw, aren't we supposed to be trying to get closer to what's natural for cats? Yargh, sorry for the tangent! ;}

Zilla - I've been buying Feline's Pride directly from their site, yes. It's almost horrifically expensive to ship, unfortunately, so it feels like it's not worth it unless you get quite a bit of it at once.

Unfortunately, none of the authorized Feline's Pride resellers in my state are anywhere near me, so online purchasing is my only option :/

I probably should talk to one of my local pet stores and see if they'd be willing to order it for me... or maybe I should contact Feline's Pride first and see if there's any kind of precedent for that!

There are quite a few online retailers that sell Rad Cat, and usually their shipping is cheaper than Feline's Pride. I've had success ordering Rad Cat from https://www.thedogmaonline.com/ , even though their website looks a little janky.

I've also bought 1-pound rolls of various grinds from Hare Today:

https://www.hare-today.com/

Of course, their grinds are literally just grinds, with no supplements added, so I have to supplement the grinds myself (I use Alnutrin, which Hare Today also sells, and a taurine supplement). My cat has gone bonkers over the mutton and llama grinds so far. It is, however, a little scary to have full control (and full responsibility!) for the supplementation of my cat's food. :/ I keep second-guessing myself and wondering if I didn't add enough supplement, etc. But Hare Today is a great option if you want to add other, more novel protein sources into a cat's diet, especially if the cat is allergic to chicken or beef!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
There are quite a few online retailers that sell Rad Cat, and usually their shipping is cheaper than Feline's Pride. I've had success ordering Rad Cat from https://www.thedogmaonline.com/ , even though their website looks a little janky.
Shipping may be cheaper but if you do the math you get more felines pride for the price including shipping than you would trying to get the same amount of Rad Cat. I havent looked at Hare Today but that Alnutrin supplement seems easy enough. It says you should only add salmon oil to it though? And a cat going bonkers over llama grind seems a little weird haha Never fed my cats lamb or llama. Maybe I'll try it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I just realized. I might be in luck! One of their authorized retailers is in Kansas City. Granted its an hour and a half away from me but still.... might save on the shipping if I come up with an excuse to go to Kansas City once in a while. Gonna call them in the morning and see how much they price at. :) Yay
 
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