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Discussion Starter #1
I am new to the cat forum. In my last post I introduced myself and hope I am writing my third post correctly. I have two rescue cats: a dsh male tabby I lovingly refer to as Littleman. And an exotic shorthair named Hermione. I have really had no major health issues to speak of concerning them. However I recently adopted a pure bred calico male Persian ( and yes, he really is a calico male ) that has been experiencing what I can only describe as bouts of pain that come and go on it's own. His symptoms are as follows: he goes back and forth to the litter box like 10 or so times within one hour. This is followed by him not wanting to be held or picked up. Sometimes he let's out a cry when you try to pick him up, other times he doesn't. He then goes and hides or runs if he sees you coming in is direction.
As far as food history: he was on Iams dry only and I always thought he drank plenty of water. Now after going to 2 different vets, one a normal vet and the other a cat specialist; he is now completely on all wet food; as are all my cats.
He is only 8 months old and I did have him neutered.
He has been in and out of vets office since I got him in January probably around 10 times trying to settle this issue. When he goes to the litterbox during his frequent trips when he is having this issue only very little comes out. But then a day later he will be perfectly find. He will be social, hyper like a kitten should be, loving and using the litterbox without issue.
Now he has had his urine checked, his bloodwork checked, 2 x-rays from 2 different vets and an ultrasound. The findings were: no crystals, no bladder stones, no kidney stones, nothing!
His ultrasound showed that his kidneys were only slightly smaller than they like to see, his bladder slightly thicker than they're like to see; but may have been from an empty bladder I am told. And his intestines lining was slightly thicker than they'd like to see. Other than that I haven answers. His urine concentration numbers were low; 1.028 and will be rechecked in 3 weeks because his kidney bloodwork was normal and also because he was on royal Canin urinary SO and was drinking large amounts of water which may have skewed the test results. So instructions were 4 weeks of wet food and 24 hrs of dry before retesting his urine. He is also being given B vitamin shots once a week in case this is an intestinal issue.
He has been fine, actually better than fine for two weeks and today he is doing the whole litterbox not wanting to be held thing. Along with the hiding and slow to move; slow to lay down as if being extra careful.
I am exhausted over this issue and extremely stressed about his health. When he does this he looks very pathetic and sad.
He is eating his wet food normally.
Sorry for the long explanation but I did not want to leave anything left to ponder about. Today one thing he did do that was unusual was let out weird grunts when he was laying around.
Thanks to anyone who might have any thoughts or advice.
 

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I don't really have any advice, but the poor boy appears to be inflamed with something...so no infections found?
 

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I have two cats who occasionally suffer bouts of interstitial cystitis (inflammation of the urinary tract with unknown cause). In fact, Somer had an episode just yesterday for a few hours. This problem is often stress-triggered. How does your kitten get along with your other cats? Is there anything stressing him out, esp. on the days when this problem arises?

Laurie
 

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I have a cat that has had interstitial cystitis. He kept having all the symptoms of a UTI but everything kept coming back normal. The vet put him on Cosequin (for cats), and he has not had anymore symptoms in a couple years. They said to keep him on it for the rest of his life.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
He gets along great with the other cats, they play really well with each other. They chase each other all over the house. Mostly they look like they are having a good time. I had to give him his first B-12 shot on my own tonight and let's just say I would never make a very good nurse. I broke the first needle getting the lid off, I stuck myself the second time and the third time he ran off in the midst of trying to stick him so I'm not even sure if I managed to give him any B-12 at all. So if this is brought on by stress and I think I just created a whole lot of that on my own. Omg!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have a cat that has had interstitial cystitis. He kept having all the symptoms of a UTI but everything kept coming back normal. The vet put him on Cosequin (for cats), and he has not had anymore symptoms in a couple years. They said to keep him on it for the rest of his life.
Thank you for that. This is why I joined this forum. I figure a million heads are better than one! I will be making a call to my specialist tomorrow about the cosequin. I'm sure she will want to wait until after we wait for the next urine concentration test. The two things she is looking at are his kidneys or intestines for answers.
 

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One way to diagnose the problem is to take him into the vet while he is having trouble trying to urinate and have the vet catheterize his bladder and culture the urine. If the problem is cystitis, there will be no bacterial growth; if there is growth, it is an infection either of the bladder or the kidneys. There is also a problem with male cats and intake of magnesium salts which can cause lower urological syndrome. Poor little guy sounds to be very distressed. I hope the cosequin or something helps. Differential diagnosis can be very difficult in these cases.
 

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Just a little warning about B12. From what I've read, it stings. So even if you do get the needle into him, he may not appreciate the injection much. I give injectable B12 to three of my cats during their subQ fluid administrations (they are all in renal failure and require regular fluids). I inject the B12 directly into the fluid line so that it gets diluted by the fluids and doesn't appear to sting at all. I expect, though, that injecting it directly subQ would be an entirely different matter. Just so you know.

I'm a little confused. Why does your vet think your cat's intestines would have anything to do with a urinary issue? Or is the vet not sure whether this is a urinary tract issue or a GI issue? Does your cat ever appear to be having trouble passing stool? Is his stool normal in color, shape, texture, and amount?

Given your cat's normal renal values in his last bloodwork, it seems highly unlikely that there's anything wrong with his kidneys. USG can be affected by things other than the kidneys, but bloodwork generally tells the truth.

Laurie

Laurie
 

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Discussion Starter #11
B12 does not sting. B complex stings. B12 alone doesn't at all.
I didn't think it would sting since they did it in the vet office before and he acted like he didn't even notice. But having said that; I might have to find a vet close by to do the shots. He needs them once a week for the next two weeks then every other week after that and then once a month. He was extremely stressed after I tried last night and really not worth it. Not to mention the stress I endured thinking I somehow hurt him.
 

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Just a little warning about B12. From what I've read, it stings. So even if you do get the needle into him, he may not appreciate the injection much. I give injectable B12 to three of my cats during their subQ fluid administrations (they are all in renal failure and require regular fluids). I inject the B12 directly into the fluid line so that it gets diluted by the fluids and doesn't appear to sting at all. I expect, though, that injecting it directly subQ would be an entirely different matter. Just so you know.

I'm a little confused. Why does your vet think your cat's intestines would have anything to do with a urinary issue? Or is the vet not sure whether this is a urinary tract issue or a GI issue? Does your cat ever appear to be having trouble passing stool? Is his stool normal in color, shape, texture, and amount?

Given your cat's normal renal values in his last bloodwork, it seems highly unlikely that there's anything wrong with his kidneys. USG can be affected by things other than the kidneys, but bloodwork generally tells the truth.

Laurie

Laurie
My vets not sure what the issue really is. From the ultrasound she saw his intestines lining wAs a little thicker than she would like to see, so maybe thats inflammation. Thus the B-12 shots. She said the B-12 can only be beneficial to him and whatever his body didn't end up needing would leave his body anyway. She's not sure this is a urinary problem since he has no blockages, stones, bacteria, etc.........he was constipated the day I brought him in and that was evident in the x-ray. So he's on miralax sprinkled in his food for that. That fixed itself almost too well so he doesn't need that right now. When I posted originally with his issue he wasn't constipated and just like I said, the next day he was perfectly fine; running all over the house and using the litter box the way he should. I am so confused by his behavior.
 

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B12 suggests that he has IBD. You should seriously consider putting him on raw. More info here:

Feline Nutrition & Raw Diets for IBD Cats

Feline Nutrition & Raw Diets for IBD Cats

Please note that I do NOT agree w/ feeding ground diets as this website recommends. But it's good on why raw is the best choice. My Calvin had IBD and once I started giving him B12 and switched to raw he never looked back.

You will NOT need to give B12 forever. You're only giving it now b/c the IBD causes malapsorption. Once that is corrected (via diet) he will be able to absorb B12 normally.

I did not give B12 shots--I gave 1000 mg sub-lingual tablets. Shots supposedly work better but I had great results w/ the tabs. It's important to use the methylcobalamin B12 tabs, NOT the cyanocobalamin. Give 1 tab/day for 2 week, than 1 tab every 3 days for 2 weeks, then 1 tab a week for a month or so. Usually by that point you can discontinue (as long as you have addressed the diet!).

There is an excellent IBD in cats Yahoo group--PM me if you would like more info.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
One way to diagnose the problem is to take him into the vet while he is having trouble trying to urinate and have the vet catheterize his bladder and culture the urine. If the problem is cystitis, there will be no bacterial growth; if there is growth, it is an infection either of the bladder or the kidneys. There is also a problem with male cats and intake of magnesium salts which can cause lower urological syndrome. Poor little guy sounds to be very distressed. I hope the cosequin or something helps. Differential diagnosis can be very difficult in these cases.
Every time he shows this issue of distress I bring him straight the vet; 2 vets now and still we have no answers. I am not a let's wait and see how he does tomorrow kind of person. You see he looks very distressed when it happens plus I lost a rescue Persian about a year and a half ago and quite sensitive to any issues now with any of my cats.
Having said that, I've had to lately wait some of these days out only because we can not find the issue that is causing the problem and as I said; the next day he acts like nothing was ever wrong. My vet says we have to kinda try different things at this point to see what helps and what doesn't. The good thing that came out of all of this is that my three babies are now all on wet food. I never knew how important that was. It's expensive but quite worth it. I've seen a big change in all my babies. The trick now will be to get them on better wet food than fancy feast or friskies because they won't even touch the really good expensive stuff. But that's a whole other issue in itself.
 

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B12 suggests that he has IBD. You should seriously consider putting him on raw. More info here:

Feline Nutrition & Raw Diets for IBD Cats

Feline Nutrition & Raw Diets for IBD Cats

Please note that I do NOT agree w/ feeding ground diets as this website recommends. But it's good on why raw is the best choice. My Calvin had IBD and once I started giving him B12 and switched to raw he never looked back.

You will NOT need to give B12 forever. You're only giving it now b/c the IBD causes malapsorption. Once that is corrected (via diet) he will be able to absorb B12 normally.

I did not give B12 shots--I gave 1000 mg sub-lingual tablets. Shots supposedly work better but I had great results w/ the tabs. It's important to use the methylcobalamin B12 tabs, NOT the cyanocobalamin. Give 1 tab/day for 2 week, than 1 tab every 3 days for 2 weeks, then 1 tab a week for a month or so. Usually by that point you can discontinue (as long as you have addressed the diet!).

There is an excellent IBD in cats Yahoo group--PM me if you would like more info.
Thank you and everyone who replied for such good advice. My vet is still trying to pin point what the actual problem is. She says sometimes when the tests come back normal you have to start trying different things. I talked with her tonight and decided to try the feliway diffusers to reduce any stress he might be feeling. We are also going to try some cosequin ( not sure if I spelled that correctly ) in his diet to see if that helps in case he is experiencing bladder inflammation, and see how that goes. I would like to not have to go with the all raw diet at this point if it turns out it's not necessary. ( and even that is something we just don't know right now but might have to revisit later ).
I absolutely want to do the best by them but within my capable means. Right now it's all wet food three times a day which involves separating three cats and a total soak down on my Persians face each time because by the time he's done eating he looks like he's wearing more of it than actually digesting. Between this and all my vet visits, trying to give shots and medication, three litter boxes that get cleaned several times a day and now diffusers; we are talking real money and time. All of which is well worth it if I can just get him feeling well.
But again thank you to all who gave me advice which I will carry with me as I try to educate myself on my problematic but yet totally adorable kitty!
 
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