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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When Malto does something bad, I say "No". It's like he doesn't get it though, he just ignores me and keeps on doing what he's doing. He's 10weeks old.

He does something good (like using the WBC Litter I just bought him instead of eating it) and I say "Good boy". How do I know it works though? Is there a better way to praise?

How do you know your reinforcement is working?

What are you to do when "No" isn't enough?

I have begun to hiss at him, he shrinks back for a few seconds or runs away, but then he comes right back. So...what to do? What to do?

Do you have any personal experience to share?
 

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You have to be the most persistent one; Pumpkin used to do things 10 times in a row to try and wear me down. Distraction/substitution works really well, for instance if you want him to stop scratching your furniture, move him to an appropriate scratcher the instant you seem him scratching something else. If you want him to stay off your table, try getting a cat tree for him to climb instead. Always give lots of treats and praise when he does something good, and say "no"/ignore him if he is doing something bad versus punishment (like spray bottles). For strong-willed cats, punishment just makes them come back at you for being "mean."
 

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He's just a baby at 10 wks, really too young to even be away from momma cat, and should be wrestling and roughhousing and pouncing on his litter mates----that's a crucial socialization period to learn cat language and how to control their bite and claws. His age is equivalent of a very young toddler. It would be better if he is at least 12 wks. or older when you get him. So you will have to be very patient and give him some slack, and only use positive reinforcement and distraction from doing something you don't want. Carry toys, ribbons, treats in your pockets, and distract him with play or treats. No spanking, spraying with water, blowing in his face or hissing, as it will only teach him to fear, distrust and be wary of you. Show him lots of love and affection and petting. All the best!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have been doing most of the other stuff, has he been reinforced wrong already? not too late to change his reinforcement right? My mom is old school, can't change her, lol
 

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I have been doing most of the other stuff, has he been reinforced wrong already? not too late to change his reinforcement right? My mom is old school, can't change her, lol
It's not too late; you just have to be consistent and patient. I think the general consensus is that the kittens don't grow out of their "naughty" high-energy phase till approximately 6 months old. You need to teach your mom what you are doing as well because your kitten needs to have the same rules/reactions from everyone living at your house.
 

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I agree with the above posts, 10 weeks is very young. Teaching him right from wrong will happen over time, if you're consistent. Think of him like an infant, he doesn't understand you yet.

My twins were willful little bratz at that age.

Wait. They still are......
 

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I have to agree with everything folks said. I have been brushing up on my kitten manners for our new kitten next week.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE save the loud clap and the loud "NO" for those big important things ~ such as you being across the room as he is about to bite into the wire of the TV. If you use this every time he does something wrong, he will QUICKLY become immune to it and you will lose the effect you are looking for. Save the big guns for big crimes:cool

praise praise praise... you can't praise your cat enough. Even the worst most evil cat out there .. find something to praise them for and do it often.
Find teeny tiny treats to use as rewards. I know a lot of people hate to give treats as reward but animals are food driven and its what works.

The best thing you can do is the same thing most moms do with human toddlers..... redirect their attention. Find something more interesting to play with then a boring old electrical wire. Be more exciting then your couch.

Also don't be hard on the kitten. As stated above, he is a BABY. Thats what they do. If you don't like kitten behavior, get a cat lolol

I know I say that now and come next week I am going to be on here beating my head on my desk because our new kitten will be driving me insane but its the best you can do :wink
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I understand is just a baby and I try to be patient with him, but I hate pain and when he claws and bites my automatic reaction is to snap at him, lol. Plus, its always when I am preoccupied that he comes and does it like, when my hands are submerged in soapy dish water or I am in the potty, or doing some house chore. It's not me that I am worried about, its my mom. She loves animals and children but she will smack the **** out of both if they misbehave and she might smack me too, if i tell her different. She's old school and set in her ways, plus..her house. *shrugs* what you gonna do?

Malto, he's smart though, he doesn't mess with her like he messes with me. Ha!

My poor baby, he's growing up so fast...*sniffles*
 

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You would be extremely surprised what us old moms can learn :wink

The facts are very simple. If you begin spanking or using physical discipline the kitten will become immune to it. You will have to go to the next level ..and once you go to that level the cat will again become immune in which you have to go to the NEXT level... on and on until your jumping up and down screaming at a cat who is un-phased and ignoring you. We see this behavior in human teenagers all the time lol

Its much better to redirect the kitten to something more fun. It is also extremely important to remove from the environment anything that could cause the cat to get into trouble. Don't set kitten up to fail.

I would read a few articles and watch a few videos on clicker training. Cats are not dogs I know ... but I have a friend who clicker trained her goldfish lol the fish would go to a certain spot in the tank for its reward.

The very first lesson dogs learn (and I am going to teach our new kitten) is the EXTREMELY valuable "focus". Some say "eyes" or whatever word you want to use. The animal puts his eyes on you and you have its complete 100% attention. Once you have the animals attention you click and treat which reinforces the behavior. Why is this soooo important? A dog (or cat) can't get into trouble if all of its attention is on you =D

With a kitten they have almost zero attention span so be ready for that! Don't expect your pet to do more then it is capable of. This very simple focus trick has kept millions of pets out of trouble =D

Here is a youtube link of someone clicker training cats. It can be done:love2

Once you train the cat this way and your mom sees how well it works for tricks and training she will be more willing to try it for other things. Show mom rather then tell her what she can't do ~ moms hate being told by their kids they are wrong lolol

My mom is an old lady and of the spanking the pet generation so I understand. A few Thansgivings back I had my Golden Retriever at her house. Mom dropped the turkey on accident almost directly in front of my 2 year old Golden. Disaster right? NOPE! I called FOCUS and my pup ran to me, sat down and had eyes on me while mom picked up the mess. My mom was AMAZED her turkey was saved from a huge golden hyper pup. After dinner that eveniing she started asking major questions and within a week enrolled in a clicker training class with her Weimaraner. She has never gone back to the old ways. The most valuable thing is clicker training is long lasting while spanking only works temporary. If I want to teach a pet manners, I want to teach it once rather then over and over again for the next 5 years!
 

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Here is an article written from the book, "culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. I read this several years ago and talk about a HUGE eye opener when it comes to pet ownership and respecting your pet. She is a famous dog behaviorist who has written many books but this one article will change how you think about your pet. For the purpose of this article cats can be used rather then dogs in the descriptions.

Care & Training Tips | Extract from The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson

WOW kind of mind blowing to think about isn't it:cool

 

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Cat & dog training has changed in a lot of ways and in others, it remains the same. Which method if the best? That is always debated. For instance, some think Caesar Milan's (Dog Whisperer) method is wrong and not the best, others believe he is the best behavioral trainer for dogs out there.

Just like with kids, some methods work for some kids, others don't.

The big difference I have noticed of dogs vs. cats, is that a dogs yearns to please the owner/master while a cat, not so. A dogs psychology is quite different than a cat. Even the big name cat trainers (Popovich, etc) say that a cat does what it wants, when it wants to.
 

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some think Caesar Milan's (Dog Whisperer) method is wrong and not the best, others believe he is the best behavioral trainer for dogs out there.
Anyone who thinks a trainer that has had dogs DIE due to the methods used is a good dog trainer needs to do their research BADLY. NO animal behaviorist endorses that man...not ONE educated professional animal behaviorist ... that should say a lot about his methods.


With that said ~ training should be FUN and not at all frustrating. It should leave you feeling fulfilled and closer to your pet. If it does not .. its not right for you or your pet. I am huge on positive reinforcement type training as I have seen it work many times.
My favorite "dog trainer" on TV would be Victoria Stillwell (ITs me or the dog). I always cheer her on when she sticks her finger at the bad owner and gives them all heck lololol
 

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I love Victoria Stillwell!!!
 

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She is great! I am always cheering her on lolol

My favorite one was when this lady's 2 adult sons lived with her, got the dog and refused to care for it. They would rather sleep until noon everyday (talk about loser bums)! Victoria marched her cute little derriere right up those stairs and yanked those guys out of their bed to take their dog out. The mom was livid and I was cheering her like it was the super bowl lololol
 

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Anyone who thinks a trainer that has had dogs DIE due to the methods used is a good dog trainer needs to do their research BADLY. NO animal behaviorist endorses that man...not ONE educated professional animal behaviorist ... that should say a lot about his methods.
Case-in-point, I actually love his techniques and he has saved many dogs that were headed toward death row. Many dog owners tried everything and he was the one who saved their dog from being put down. I actually found quite a few animal behaviorist that endorse him and his techniques.

Like I said, there are many different opinions about how to train a cat and dog. Some work and some don't. Nothing is 100% fool proof.
 

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Victoria Stillwell also has her critics and some have found her methods to be failures and not work.

In the end, one has to choose what works for their particular pet. Some bad behavior cannot always be resolved through positive reinforcement. Just like in humans, it doesn't always work.
 

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Modern Dog Training vs. Cesar Millan

The American Humane Association as this:
http://www.lyonsagility.com/Dog Whisperer Training Approach More Harmful Than Helpful - AHA.pdf

The NY times did a good article
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0612FE355A0C728FDDA10894DE404482

Here he is being sued for a dog in his care by a TV producer
'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan sued by TV producer - USATODAY.com

Here is another good site explaining how damaging his techniques are
BEYOND CESAR MILLAN - Home

There is no need to physically hurt any dog to get them to behave. Dogs are food motivated and positive reinforcement does work... it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort and some folks don't like to take that kind of time. Its a snap to train a pup this way but older dogs who have been largely neglected or not allow to socialize take longer.

If your interested in a "real dog whisperer" look up Ian Dunbar. Hands down the best dog guy in the entire world. He refuses to do shows or anything because a dog can't be fixed in a 30 minute show and he doesn't want to put forth that feeling. Hero kind of guy with his work!!! He has never been bitten, I have never been bitten and my personal trainer of 30 years has only been bitten once and that was by a large lab pup playing too rough.
Over a 100 years of training dogs and not once mean bite. Ceaser is bitten just about every show. And yeah I cheer the dog on when it happens hehe

He has NO training at all. He was a dog groomer who liked to get rough with his customers dogs. Thats it ... not one class on animal behavior. That is not the kind of person I want telling me how to handle my dog.

If you watch his show, then you know the majority of the problems with the dogs are lack of socialization and fear aggression. The stupidest thing you can do is confirm that dog's fear by getting in its face and applying pain to it.

"OK my dog is scared of people so if I invite some stranger over to beat the crap out of my dog he won't be scared of people anymore.." :cool

What he does only works short term. It is not a long term training program. Besides when a dog trainer has warnings all over his show of, "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME" err... no thanks I shall pass.
 

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PS... I posted this once but its really worth repeating. I honestly feel every pet owner, anyone that works with animals and heck ...EVERYONE should read it. It's not about the Dog Whisperer but its about how we communicate to our pets our wishes. GREAT STUFF and really makes someone sit back and think..

Care & Training Tips | Extract from The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson

Also, Victoria Stillwell does have her critics but I said she is the best trainer on TV. You will never see her choke, hang or otherwise abuse an animal. She is a firm believer in there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. I got to agree with that. There are however much better trainers then Victoria. Jean Donaldson and Ian Dunbar are fantastic with the meanest most aggressive dogs on earth. Jean actually has a pit bull sanctuary of the worst of the worst. Her trainees work with these pitt bulls to learn techniques from .. none of the trainees for her school are ever attack or bitten by these vicious killers.
 

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If anyone would like to research him before using his techniques, you will find that he has no education at all. He was an Illegal alien who snuck into this country on the back of a truck. I am not saying this is bad or good.. just the facts. He didn't become legal in this country until 2009 and he himself admits not having any formal education and coming illegal to this country.

He doesn't even have a high school diploma. He worked as an illegal immigrant grooming dogs. He found if you choke a dog so it can't breathe it will behave for the short time he was grooming them.

If you research his past "clients" you will see that their dog in fact went back to its old ways soon after he left. You don't see any of this with the TV however. He is nothing but a con artist selling snake oil =/

Sorry about the rant ~ but that one guy seriously gets under my skin. He has made it permissible to use physical force and pain and torture in the name of training. No animal deserves that no matter what.
 

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http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profession.html

There is no need to physically hurt any dog to get them to behave.
That is where you are wrong. Caesar does not hurt any animals.

It's clear you are bias against Caesar. I can also quote numerous sources that are against Victoria Stillwell.

If your 4 year old child is running into the street, do you use positive reinforcement and plea with her when a Mack truck is coming at her or do you run and grab her by the hand?
 
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