Cat Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
How many protein sources do you need to have enough diversity in a cat's menu

How do you get your cat started on raw diet? Soups?

Does the kibble/wet food process at a different rate in a cat's stomach than raw does
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
751 Posts
As much differant kinds of meat that you can get. We recently started a thread with everyones "menu" here: http://www.catforum.com/forum/62-raw-food-diet/134857-what-does-your-menu-look-like.html

The majority of mine took to raw easily though it took a while to build up the jaw strength to eat chunks of meat. I don't feed ground as it just doesn't have all the benifits as feeding "frankenprey" or whole prey raw does.

Ditch the kibble. If your cat will eat wet food why feed dry food:wink It is best to not feed dry food for 12 hours before feeding raw.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,746 Posts
More variety is better, of course, but more variety isn't essential. As long as you feed 80-85% meat, 5-10% bone, and 10% organ (half of which must be liver) you could theoretically feed all that from one species. Protein is protein, fat is fat, etc.

Start simple and work up to more variety--that's easier on you and more likely to work well for the kitty. Tossing in too much stuff right at the start can cause GI tract upset, etc.

Yeah, ditch the kibble. It's artificially smelly--much smellier than real raw meat--and if the "Kitty Crack" is available, the cat will never transition.

Info here on trasitioning: Practical Guide
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I disagree with the protein is protein, fat is fat argument. you get different nutrients from different animals. It would not be wise to feed your cat/dog/ferret chickens every day for their entire life- somewhere they are going to be lacking. it is also a good idea to switch up the types of proteins. for example- fryer chickens have more/less of some nutrients than older chickens or chicks let's say.

I will not be transitioning my cat. I am content with a high quality kibble, thanks though. the reason why I ask is because with ferrets the kibble processes slower in their gut than the raw meat does so feeding both a kibble/raw diet will result in an upset tummy- just curious if this is the same for cats.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
952 Posts
I disagree with the protein is protein, fat is fat argument. you get different nutrients from different animals. It would not be wise to feed your cat/dog/ferret chickens every day for their entire life- somewhere they are going to be lacking. it is also a good idea to switch up the types of proteins. for example- fryer chickens have more/less of some nutrients than older chickens or chicks let's say.

I will not be transitioning my cat. I am content with a high quality kibble, thanks though. the reason why I ask is because with ferrets the kibble processes slower in their gut than the raw meat does so feeding both a kibble/raw diet will result in an upset tummy- just curious if this is the same for cats.
You're right that nutrient profiles differ between prey animals, and what is low in one may be higher in another. Chicken, for instance, is high in fat, while rabbit is very lean; quail is high in copper and chicken breast is high in niacin and B6. Since science has yet to determine the complete nutrient profile of every prey animal, most raw-feeders aim for the greatest variety they can get.

You're also correct when you assume that the same digestive differences exist for your cat that you see in your ferrets.

Given that, I'm rather floored that you want to keep your cat, who has precisely the same needs as your ferrets, on kibble - a completely inappropriate "food".

Species-Inappropriate: The Dangers of Dry Food

Feeding Your Cat: Know The Basis of Feline Nutrition

Also, just a friendly thought - if you have a question, feel free to ask it; if you want to throw something out there for "discussion" be as honest and state it's for discussion. ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
It is something I will look into more, and I will read those two links you posted as well. Feeding raw for my cat is not something I am completely opposed to but so far the methods i've tried to get her to switch (the same I used for the ferrets) have completely fallen flat. I feel I need to learn more about a cat's nutritional needs and digestive systems before I can take her off of what I see as a balanced dry diet (which, after reading wet food links I will start to suppliment with wet food) and onto an unbalanced diet until I get the mechanics worked out.

I understand that posting this in a raw food forum will bring on a lot of unhappy posters but I ask that you please respect my descision and understand that I am open to trying new things when the time is right :)

by the way- I am currently feeding blue spa wilderness duck and chicken flavors.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
952 Posts
It is something I will look into more, and I will read those two links you posted as well. Feeding raw for my cat is not something I am completely opposed to but so far the methods i've tried to get her to switch (the same I used for the ferrets) have completely fallen flat. I feel I need to learn more about a cat's nutritional needs and digestive systems before I can take her off of what I see as a balanced dry diet (which, after reading wet food links I will start to suppliment with wet food) and onto an unbalanced diet until I get the mechanics worked out.
Good for you for being open-minded, Zoologist! (Good for your kitty, too. *smile*)

I understand that posting this in a raw food forum will bring on a lot of unhappy posters but I ask that you please respect my descision and understand that I am open to trying new things when the time is right :) ...
Unlike many (dare I say most?) other forums, CF is a very safe and supportive environment. For the most part, we don't judge others, and it's highly unlikely you'll receive any posts blasting you for your choice to feed dry.

You will, however, receive lots of encouragement to read more on the dangers related to feeding kibble to cats and you'll receive a TON of support should you once again attempt to transition your kitty to raw. :)

CF is a great forum and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the culture you'll find here. :wink
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
751 Posts
It is much easier to switch if you first switch to feeding only wet food as well as using timed feedings. Hoofmaiden posted a link which may be very helpful too you in the switching process.

I am currently switching for cats over to a raw diet. For a while the only thing I could get them to eat was dry food - and Friskies dry at that. I switched to feeding them twice a day...they got to have their food down for 30 minutes (they would all eat then) and then I'd take it away until the next feeding. Then I gave them wet food one feeding instead; at that point they were hungry enough to try it. They would all eat the wet so I quit giving them dry and only offered them wet food. Then I started putting small chunks of raw meat on top of their wet food which they happily ate:) They aren't getting much raw yet - though they would be willing to switch over completly - and I will switch them over all the way after they are all spayed/nuetered the end of this month.

Clover was one of my toughest to switch as she had been eating all dry food her entire life. She would not touch or go near wet food no matter what I did to it. I really needed her to start eating wet because at that point I had completly ditched the kibble except for with her. I started syringe feeding her 3 oz a day of wet food and gave her the dry food to snack on as well. She got used to the texture of wet and started to think it was really good stuff - and started eating wet food on her own. So I quit giving her dry at that point. Switching her over to raw feeding was really hard though. I had offered her so many types of meat which she refused. Until one day I gave her part of a lamb heart and she loved it! Once she had a taste of what real food was she loved any type of meat:) It took a while to build up her jaw strength to the point of eating bone in meat but now she has been a 100% raw fed cat for a bit over a year.

Of the 18 (soon 22) cats I switched over most of them loved raw meat right off the bat. I still have one cat that won't eat any raw so with him I have settled with feeding him all canned and he supplements that with mice, rabbits, birds, etc that he catches.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,746 Posts
Again, while more variety is better, plenty of raw feeders (long-term, talking DECADES here) do end up feeding very little variety with great success. Feeding nothing but chicken parts will result in a happy, healthy rawfed cat (certainly MUCH happier and healthier than a kibble-fed cat!). The point is that if inability to provide tons of variety is what is stopping you, don't let it. Your cat WILL do much better on a low-variety raw diet than on a kibble or canned diet, as long as you hit the 80-85/5-10/10% guidelines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
variety is not stopping me. I have a wonderful supplier who I can get a lot of great meats from. currently the ferts are munching on rabbit, duck, goat, chicken, pork, tripe, chicken feet, beef and venison (not all at once ;))

I took my cat to the vet today for the required 15 day check up ( I just got her from the humane society) and was pleasantly surprised to find out she is a holistic vet and is very fond of raw diets. she does not carry any hills science diet in her clinic but rather has a freezer of commerical raw as well as wellness kibble/wet for dogs/cats and chicken soup for the cat lovers soul. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
variety is not stopping me. I have a wonderful supplier who I can get a lot of great meats from. currently the ferts are munching on rabbit, duck, goat, chicken, pork, tripe, chicken feet, beef and venison (not all at once ;))

I took my cat to the vet today for the required 15 day check up ( I just got her from the humane society) and was pleasantly surprised to find out she is a holistic vet and is very fond of raw diets. she does not carry any hills science diet in her clinic but rather has a freezer of commerical raw as well as wellness kibble/wet for dogs/cats and chicken soup for the cat lovers soul. :)
It is great that your vet is a holistic vet!
I believe a lot of people came a long way to get their cats to eat raw. Even when a cat is eating raw, sometimes they will quit for unknown reason (you know cats...).

I am sure if you post questions or situations here, we will share our experience and brainstorm for you.

I think sometimes a commercial raw can be a good way to start raw. They are grounded, so they are easier to eat. I think some commercial raw tastes better than homemade, so maybe that will work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
This is a great response I got back from my ferret forum. I took the all protein is created equal theory to them and this was the best response. She is our 'head raw feeder' and an administrator of the holistic ferret forum

I'm going to drop in here. If you want to feed raw and get the benefits in the long term you either feed variety or you supplement like crazy, it's as simple as that. This whole idea that you're going to get this to work long term by feeding simply chicken is going to go south eventually. Chicken is sadly lacking as a protein source and for ferrets it's like following Pottages feeding of rabbits as a sole protein to cats (which by the way starved to death....the cruel sods didn't even stop the test once these cats started dying). Look it up, it's sighted by vets as the reason why raw feeding doesn't work. You're right, it's not going to show up in one year, two, maybe even three but it's going to show up eventually, anemia being the key component, low calcium counts...eventually the outside symptoms start to show up, but lets face it by that point in time some of the other damage, the deficiencies in vitamins and minerals are going to be doing their damage. In the long run, as much as I hate kibble and wouldn't advocate it to anyone, in the long run....kibble is better if you're only going to feed a single protein source without tons of supplements. The whole idea about raw feeding is to provide a diet that is better than kibble which is nothing but the garbage left over with a lot of supplements. If all you feed is a single protein source such as chicken.....what are you feeding? Think about it. I don't mean to sound harsh, but the reason why vets don't take us seriously is they get to fix the mistakes we make when we feed raw improperly. The single protein source is probably the biggest mistake we can make. Not all protein is created equal, hence the reason to mix it up .
ciao- heather
interesting. I'll have to look more into that rabbit experiment.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,746 Posts
interesting. I'll have to look more into that rabbit experiment.
The rabbit experiment was flawed. The meat was ground, which reduces taurine, and rabbit is pretty low in taurine anyway. Hence the issues. It was also a long time ago.

I am not advocating feeding only one protein source. However, plenty of barn cats live on nothing but mice and they do very well. Mice are, of course, the perfect cat food. But plenty of raw feeders DO feed mostly one protein source and their cats do great on that. I would not make that protein source rabbit, as they ARE low in taurine, unless you supplement taurine. Otherwise, there is really no need to worry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Elizabeth, obviously we are not going to see eye-to-eye on this whole argument. I'd love to keep discussing this with you via PM, so let me know if you want to continue! But other than that I'm not going to discuss it any more in this topic ;)
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top