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Discussion Starter #1
I'm curious to know, what is the true definition of a siamese mix? Is it simply a moggie(mixed breed cat) with some siamese genetics? How much siamese does a cat have to have to be classified as a siamese mix?

How many of you have a siamese mix?
 

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I think generally people call their domestics (moggies) that are pointed Siamese Mixes or sometimes if a cat has a "Siamese personality" or is out of a pointed "mix" cat (but not pointed) they also get thrown into the "Siamese Mix" class. Some might actually come from a pedigreed Siamese mating with a non-Siamese, but I think more often someone just sees a pointed cat, so calls them a Siamese Mix. For my two pointed "moggies" (cream point and white and a red lynx point and white) I just call them DSH and their color since the pointed gene isn't just for Siamese cats...
 

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The "true definition" would be any offspring of a purebred Siamese (with papers) and a cat of any other breed or a moggie.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have a siamese mix but no papers to prove it other than the description of the breed on her adoption papers from the San Diego Department of Animal Control stating she is a siamese tortie and white mix. Does that count? The other proof is her appearance of having some seal point markings, tiramisu or coffee like coloring and blue eyes. I'm wondering if any of you forum members own siamese mixes and can you post pictures please? I'd love to see a variety of siamese mixes. I've already posted mine in the cat chat section under the topic, "Why your cat is the best in the world."
 

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moggiegirl -- yours is an example of what JJ was talking about. Your girl has points, but there is no way to tell if one of her parents were really siamese. The pointed gene shows up in many breeds, so without proof of who her parents are, you don't really know if she's a siamese mix. But almost ALWAYS, shelters will list a pointed cat as "siamese mix" because of the points, and because they get adopted faster that way. Sad but true.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
ForJazz said:
moggiegirl -- yours is an example of what JJ was talking about. Your girl has points, but there is no way to tell if one of her parents were really siamese. The pointed gene shows up in many breeds, so without proof of who her parents are, you don't really know if she's a siamese mix. But almost ALWAYS, shelters will list a pointed cat as "siamese mix" because of the points, and because they get adopted faster that way. Sad but true.
Don't the blue eyes along with the markings prove it? Well, it doesn't matter. I love her just the same. She's my precious baby and she's beautiful and wonderful to have. I would have adopted her even if the papers didn't say that. Actually I wasn't even looking for a siamese. I have heard that siamese are very intense kitties, knock things off shelves, can't live in condominiums, but I did fall in love with Rosie, siamese mix or not. (But I still think she is part siamese) She also has a wonderful temperament for indoor living even in a modest condominium. :D
 

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moggiegirl said:
Don't the blue eyes along with the markings prove it?
No -- not at all. Do you know what I mean when I say "points?" I mean that the extremities of the body are darker. The characteristic siamese "look" is a darker face, darker ears, darker feet, and a darker tail. I am guessing your kitty is a tortie point. But as already mentioned, the pointed gene is present in many breeds, not just siamese. And ALL pointed cats have blue eyes. So do some white cats, and rarely but sometimes in other colors.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok, so just to help me learn a little more about kitty genetics, because I find this stuff really fascinating, how can a cat have seal point markings, blue eyes, and coffee with beige and cream type coloring if the cat doesn't have either siamese, ragdoll, or birman, or himalayan ancestry? Looking at her tortoishelle markings it's evident that her mother was a female tortoishelle but her father had to have been a purebred of some kind. Rosie has short fur so that pretty much rules out himalayan or ragdoll so one of her relatives must be siamese or birman. What other kinds of breeds can have these markings? And if there are no purebreds in her genetic lineage but just regular moggies then how can she look like this? Just want to know how it's possible.

 

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No, the father doesn't have to be purebred. The moher and the father surely must carrie colorpoint, but non of them have to be purebred. Your cat probably do have some ancestors (at least one from them others side and one from the fathers side) that are Siamese, Birman, Ragdoll, Persian, Devon rex, Cornish Rex etc. but it doesn't have to be the father. It can be a grandmother and a great grandfather or so.
 

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Yeah just as Sol said, it can be way down the line. But there are so many breeds that carry the pointed gene, there is really no way of knowing where it came from. And it doesn't have to be a shorthaired pointed cat either. It could be that your cat's great great great great grandmother or something was a pointed siberian with long hair, and then down several lines of breeding with various cats, yours just happened to be shorthaired. When dealing with moggies, you never really know what you're going to get. Your cat's siblings might have been a brown longhaired tabby and a black shorthair. You never really know. Correct me if I'm wrong Sol, but her cat's mother might not have even been a tortie, right? There are a ton of ways that you could come to have a tortie point. Is it right that her dad could have been an orange tabby (long or shorthaired) and her mom could have been a black cat (long or shorthaired) as long as both of them were carrying a pointed gene and a shorthaired gene? Or is shorthair dominant...*eyes go crossed* Genetics are interesting to me but somehow I always get brain freezes. :)

PS moggiegirl -- birmans are longhaired cats too. Some other cats that carry pointed genes that I can think of are...snowshoe, siberian, american bobtail, munchkin, bengal, tonkinese, balinese, javanese, ragamuffin, devon rex, cornish rex, selkirk rex, sphynx, LaPerm, and American Curl. And the truth is, every moggie out there came from these breeds -- or to say it better: all of these breeds came from moggies. Each and every one of our cats had to come from some sort of combination of these breeds -- that's what makes a moggie so unique. :)
 

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What a beautiful cat! :D

Her parents don't need to be colorpoints. Both have to carry the CP gene though. One of her parents must have had short coat as this gene is dominant, the other one could have been SH or LH. For cat to be a tortie one of her parents must be red or mother has to be a tortie. If both parents are red however their kittens will only be red.

Moggies carry CP genes and red genes as well as purebreds.
 

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ForJazz said:
Correct me if I'm wrong Sol, but her cat's mother might not have even been a tortie, right? There are a ton of ways that you could come to have a tortie point.
Correct. The mother doesn't have to be tortie. She could have been black, blue, red or creme. A tortie gets red from one of the parents and black from the other.
 
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