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Discussion Starter #1
Anonyomus -
Roy already stated that he knows the tiger is not to blame, and wants the animal left unharmed....the LAST thing he said before passing out.....

I would think HE would know whether he was attacked or not, considering
he's been raising and training these animals for 30 YEARS!!!!

Longer than PETA has been around....and S&R have a documented reputation for how well they treat their cats....

PETA has to get their hands in every pie, although they arent doing any good with this particular BITCH...

If S&R want the animals to remain unharmed, and with them, no one
can stop them. They OWN these animals. If my dogs bit me, the law could not take them away unless I asked them to. And Roy is NOT going to file a complaint against the tiger, you can bet on it. As long as his tigers are not
a threat to the populace, they cant be removed if Roy lives. Maybe even if he dies, I'm sure Siegfried would have a say in that, since they are half his and Roy has specifically requested that no harm come to them....

Instead of harassing Roy, they should be APPLAUDING on the kind, decent, ethical treatment he has always given ALL his animals. He treats those cats better then some people treat their kids....

These men have been KINDLY raising, training and caring for these animals for over 30 years. They DO NOT beat them, chain them, abuse them....Roy keeps them IN HIS HOUSE, they are like children to him....The reputation of S&R for the excellent
care of their animals is both well known, and documented. His stage cats
COULD NOT be returned to the wild, they have been raised with humans and no nothing about hunting, or living without humans. They are spoiled rotten by the loving care that S&R give them, every day....they consider S&R as part of their family, their close-knit group. You want to seperate them? You really dont care about how the cats might feel about that. Of course, you want all the Pit Bulls in the world killed too....

I think you should take the "Ethical" out of your title...

I believe you're only in it for the money....

Also, it's now believed that the tiger was trying to HELP Roy, not hurt him. Stew on that, wont you?
 

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A dog's demeanor, regardless of breed, reflects the treatment bestowed upon the animal by the owner. Some people are kind and some people aren't - therefore it would be a mistake to blame it on the dogs. From what I have read so far pitbulls are very warm-hearted and protective especially with children. To me dogs in general are a marvelous species.
 

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Unfortunately, very untrue. Every month or so we hear about attacks from pit bulls here in FL. Just the other month a girl was mauled by her own pet which was never abused, and had been around children its whole life. It seems this is almost always the case. They always say... it was just this one time... a fluke... yet it happens over and over again. There are too many children who have been killed or scarred for life. For what? For a person to have an animal to prove their masculinity. They could have had another type of dog just as strong but less aggressive.

The solution: put them all to sleep.

But back on topic. These tigers were well kept, but they're still wild animals... unfortunately it's bound to happen. Especially with all of the excitement of the shows. I'm definately glad that an audience member wasn't hurt. When some people were talking about that in college, a girl I know said she saw them in person a while back and she was afraid that one of the tigers would come and get her. Sure that sounds silly... or does it now?

I was going to say at least the tigers aren't in a position where they can harm the public... but what happened if it jumped off stage and went for the crowd? I think if the show does go on, they should set up some type of precaution for the crowd.
 

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Aonir: I'm just a little curious as to why you did not post this on the current Roy and his tigers thread, instead of starting a new one. I'm read on peta's comments to this issue as well.

Louse: You have got to be kidding me. I'm just going to go WAY over here as to avoid myself getting banned.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Pit Bulls.. Lets see.. The number one dog for dog bites is.. LABS! Hmm. Go figure that one. Pit Bulls... used by ignorant people for dog fights because their jaws are strong - something that has not yet been proven. Pits are abandoned, killed, AND punished when they fail a fight. Pits are NOT human agressive, no they are not.. Most are dog agressive I hear because they are a dominant breed. They need to be alpha in the house of pets.
Another mistake made by humans - NEVER leave a child alone with a dog. EVER. I don't care how nice that dog is, ANY dog can turn quickly. People are trying to ban breeds, (German Shepherds, Dobermans, Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, etc) because WE created them to do what? GUARD. They are guard dogs. Pit Bulls were bred to be BULL BAIT.
I suggest anyone who is against Pitt Bulls should do a little research of the cruelty to that breed. 90% of the time when people see a vicious dog they think its a pit, AND ITS NOT.
 

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Aonir said:
Pit Bulls.. Lets see.. The number one dog for dog bites is.. LABS!

Another mistake made by humans - NEVER leave a child alone with a dog. EVER. I don't care how nice that dog is, ANY dog can turn quickly.
Lab bites... sure, but being mauled is a completely different thing.

And I completely agree on the second part, but 90% of the time it's not a Pit? Come on. Maybe where you live... If that's the truth then maybe only the Pit maulings make it into the news...

Anyone else thing that Pit owners (along with other aggressive breeds) should need to acquire a lisence and be investigated etc etc etc etc?
 

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That is very well-said, Aonir.
Here is a link just as eloquent as your relating of the problem. I hope people will learn and spread the word. The noble heart inside a dog can shine so bright if we apply the right kind of treatment to it.
Please take a minute and read out of this page: http://pbrc.net/petbull/sadreality.html
 

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Aonir: Here here! :D

Pit Bulls by nature, and by their breed standard are NOT aggressive, this is not fictual, but fact.

They are known and suppose to be more loyal and happy go lucky then even golden retreivers.

I have met 200+ some odd pitbulls and pit mixes, and never a ONE which was human or dog agressive. Always with a happy smile and wagging tail just wanting love and enjoying the wonderfull day!

However, I have met dogs of all various breeds whom have been dog or human aggressive, I work at a vet now, and with all the patients coming in, out of the ones whom have needed to be muzzled, none of them a pit or similar looking breeds.

I was bit as a young child (not my fault at all) but the fault of stupid owners by a golden/shepard mix. My leg was almost ripped off by a dalmation as a young child as well. 2 black labs tried to kill a small jrt whom was a former client of mine while he was in my care.

Knowlege is good, educate yourself, pit bulls are NOT a human or dog aggressive breed naturally. It's just not in them.
 

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Here are the facts as stated by Daniel Ester, Ph.D and Suzzane Hetts, Ph.D, animal behaviorists:

http://www.animalbehaviorassociates.com ... s_dogs.pdf

129 of the 177 fatal dog attacks from 1979 to 1994 were made by these dogs:

Pit Bulls
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Siberian Huskies
Alaskan Malamutes
Wolf Hybrids

The reasons for these attacks are genetics, environment, age, sex, and reproductive status.
_____________________________________________________________

Yes, we love animals. I used to breed and show dogs. But denial and love don't change statistics. Please let's stop arguing about what's already well documented and fight the bad breeding and other factors that cause mean dispositions in animals rather than each other. Any breed could be turned mean by means of deliberate breeding for that quality over a period of years. All terriers, from smallest to largest, have the strong jaw that causes the damage by the Pit Bull (Staffordshire Terrier, American style.)

As far as tigers are concerned, any person going to a circus is in danger. They are beautiful, but wild animals. In this case we know they were treated better than any of us can afford to treat our pets, but they are wild animals. Any time we go near a wild animal, there is some element of danger. The amount of danger depends on the same mixture of factors that affect dogs and cats.

I will continue to pray for Roy's recovery.
 

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Jeanie: Those attacks happen because some humans have chosen them to be aggressivly raised, and bred. There are seperate lines out there disassociated with all of that, much like their true breed status. Pit Bulls in this country come in LARGE numbers, because of a lot of breeding for several reasons, there are more bites reported about pit bulls because there are simply more of them, not that by nature they are more vicious, there are several bites and attacks that happen from all sorts of dogs, just much of society is "trained" to fear particular breeds more then others, and one is not as likely to report a bite from a small breed. Out of the thousands upon thousands of dogs I have met, a lot of the smaller breeds are some of the most ill mannered aggressive, and bitey animals out there, because of the way their humans chose to raise them. Too many people are under the belief that it's "Ok" for a little dog to be a terror or to bite, because it's a small animal.


There are no stastics or professionals proving that your average full blooded pit bull coming from proper lines is more likely to attack, or to have an aggressive demenor. And that's the part that matters.

We all know what dogs get bad reps for biting, we all know that it does happen, we are not denying this, but by eliminating a breed (hey lets cause their own extinction, it's ok to do to pits and rotts but not alright for tigers). Hypocrits.

What we need is firmer laws, which WILL be enforced towards owners and breeders of any breed, specially ones which are, and will come to be, known and used for fighting and guard dogs.

There is even the beginnings of Jindos being used for gaurd and attack dogs in the usa, taking the place as a german shepard or a rottie. Jindo's by far are not a naturally aggressive breed. These people are breedign for the wrong reasons, and that's where we need to start, to stop all of this, is punishment and follow through of bad or illegal breeders. I do not feel the general public should be allowed to breed whenever and whereever they feel like.
 

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Jeanie said:

The reasons for these attacks are genetics, environment, age, sex, and reproductive status.
_____________________________________________________________

. Please let's stop arguing about what's already well documented and fight the bad breeding and other factors that cause mean dispositions in animals rather than each other. Any breed could be turned mean by means of deliberate breeding for that quality over a period of years.
 

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i heard there are one or two types of breeds (i think pit bulls and dobermans, but i could be totally wrong) go nuts as they get older because although their skull stops growing, their brain doesn't. therefore it slowley drives them crazy. again- just something i've heard, i've no idea whether it's true or not.
 

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The solution: put them all to sleep
As my first post, I better make this good.

I cannot comprehend that in this day and age, with all the knowledge we have, that you could acually think in this manner.

It's disgusting and unfortunante. Please everyone else forgive me for making such a strong first post, but this topic has always bothered me. I am embarking on a year long research project on anti- Breed Specific Legislation that will hopefully prevent people with this screwed way of thinking from ever having any say in what laws are passed.

FACT: Bite Statistics are Inaccurate and are easily manipulated

“Dog bite statistics are not really statistics, and they do not give an accurate picture of dogs that bite. Invariably the numbers will show that dogs from popular large breeds are a problem. This should be expected, because big dogs can physically do more damage if they do bite, and any popular breed has more individuals that could bite. Dogs from small breeds also bite and are capable of causing severe injury. There are several reasons why it is not possible to calculate a bite rate for a breed or to compare rates between breeds. First, the breed of the biting dog may not be accurately recorded, and mix breed dogs are commonly described as if they were purebreds. Secondly, the actual number of bites that occur in a community is not known, because it is rare for all dogs in a community to be licensed and existing licensing data is then incomplete.”
http://www.avma.org/press/dogbite/dogbite.pdf

Don't believe this? Maybe more statistics since that seems to be the only way people ever believe anything. Oh, i forgot about the front page or the evening news. :roll:

According to The Journal of American Medical Association, over 66% of all dog related deaths are attributed to more media friendly type dogs such as the Labrador and cocker spaniel, while the other 1/3 are the pitbull, pitbull mixes, rottweilers and shepards, the group more commonly portrayed in the media as “dangerous dogs” and are most often the breeds that are banned. A Majority? I think not.

CHIRPP 2002 Report

Dog bites in accordance to prevalence of occurance:
#1 German Shepard
#2 Cocker Spaniels
#3 Rottweilers
#4 Golden Retrievers

Fatalities were as followed in order of incidence:
#1 Labradors
#2 Staffordshire Bull Terrier
#3 German Shepherds,
#4 Bull Terriers
#5 Rottweiler
#6 American Pitbull Terrier
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/pphb-dgspsp/inju ... index.html

I am a volunteer at the SPCA and have been brought up around large dogs my whole life. all i can say is from the experiences that i've EVER had with an agressive dog, it's 99.9% because of bad ownership.

RESPONSIBLE OWNERSHIP is the key. Not Banning or killing off a breed.
 

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I recently watched Bowling for Columbine, and the way pit bulls are treated on the news is sorta explained by that movie.

Fear sells in the news world, and there are key words that strike fear in common people. Some from the last year that stick in my mind are terrorism, SARS, weapons of mass destruction...

It's easier to stick with one type of fear than others, so after the first couple big "pit bull" attacks, they all dog attacks became "pit bull" attacks. I have pit bull in quotations because they offen say that but in reality most of the dog may only contain a little pit bull, or look like a breed that looks similar. Usually mastiffs, terriors, bulldogs and such are group together as pit bulls. 93srv would be better able to explain this than I.

On another note 93srv is the friend I offen refer to, the one with the Russian blue.
 

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93SRV, Your link is not working. It provides another link to the AVMA. Could you find the article and give us the current, correct link? Most people are concerned about fatalities or very serious injuries. That's why we hear so much about pit bulls. I am a lover of big dogs. I find them to be more gentle than little "snippy" breeds, although there are some "Benji" types that I think are adorable, I bred and showed Collies.

When I look at the lists of fatalities I can't understand why the Chow Chow is not there, because I was bitten as a child Or, where is the beautiful red Irish Setter-- Don't the papers know that I had to stop one in mid-leap by putting my hand up and saying DOWN! ( I'm glad she believed my Alpha Dog behavior!) The truth is that the newspapers and tv are not interested that a chow bit a child, and she needed two stiches, or that I was almost attacked by an Irish setter. It's not news. Fatalities are news, and so, Pitbulls are in the news. Unethical breeders have taken advantage of the powerful jaws to satisfy the people who want the "biggest and baddest" dog they can get. The same is true of the Rotweiler and Doberman Pinscher.

You and i know that the Golden Retriever is one of the most popular family dogs in the US. Small injuries, like my bite from the Chow, are probably common, because children pull ears and sit on dogs. Golden Retrievers are not usually bred to be attack dogs, however.

There are two opposite sides in this continuing argument. I believe the truth lies between the two extremes. Yes the fatal bites and mangling and disfiguring bites are caused mainly by the breeds that people fear, but the quality that leads to that sort of action can be bred out of the dog. Collies used to be sharp shy. (In the twenties, I believe) That was bred out of them. The same could happen to the breeds we now consider vicious.

As I urged before, we are animal lovers. Let's put the blame where it belongs-on unethical breeders, and stop denying that some breeds are now dangerous. Those who want them all destroyed become more and more defensive, as do those who love the breeds. And the fruitless argument goes on and on.

We can stop this unethical breeding by imposing jail sentences on those who continue the practice--like the couple who caused the death of the young woman in California. Charge them with attempted murder. An animal bred and trained to attack is at least as dangerous as a person with a black belt in Karate or a professional boxer. They are held to a higher standard than Mr. Average Person! Let's hold these breeders to a higher standard also--by law. The animal is innocent, but I cant take that chance. I'm still wary of Chows and other dogs with bad reputations. That could change, but it will take years. Arguing, denial, and killing the dogs aren't the answer.

(By the way, welcome! Have you introduced yourself at the Meow forum? We're nice people, really.)
 
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