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Hi I'm new. I came her to ask a question about cats, but I saw this thread and I feel it is an obligation of mine to reply. I'm sorta pissed off by this whole thing, but I'll try to be as polite and to the point as I can.

I've spent years training and working with dogs. The whole "pit bulls are mean and vicous" is a huge load of bull crap. First of all, 50 years ago pitties were considered the best family dog. Just like the Lab and Golden are today. What breed do u think Petey is from the Little Rascals? He's a pure bred pit bull. Take a look at this link if u don't believe me:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pete.html

How about all the pictures of these mean vicous dogs attacking these poor kids:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/shadytown/claire.html
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/fun/kids.html

Instead of taking time to write all this out I'm going to let the links speak for me I highly suggest, that if u are one of the mis-informed people that believe all pitties are vicous, u take a look at all these links, and read all the info, and go in with an open mind, please.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/breedinfo.html
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/amstaff.html


Here is an excellent link....
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

Another good one of a pittie and a cat:
http://www.udonet.com/prowicz/pets/2000ares_jerry.shtml


The point I'm trying to make is that u cannot judge a whole breed. Let's say some 43 yr old white male kills someone. Does that mean that all 43 yr old white males will kill someone eventually???? No, of course not. This is very much like what BSL is saying. BSL will not work. Use common sencse here people. Why don't we try enforcing the laws we have now? Harsher punishment for people who abuse animals. Harsh punishment for dog fighting. Making sure people get thier dogs registered with the city they live in. This can all help solve the problem without ripping dogs out of thier homes just because it's a certain breed. Here's a poem that was posted at a dog forum I'm at:

A Prayer of a Pitbull
Spirit in the sky, who watches over all animals: It is my prayer and my request that you grant greater
understanding, and acceptance to humans; those who love us, and those who hate us.

That they will know how loyal we are, how brave we
are, and how loving we are. Help them to accept us as a breed in whole and not let the few tragedies shine brighter than the many great traits that we have.

And those who would kill me, let them know, I forgive them, even though I don't understand their hatred. And those who would beat me, let them know I still love them, even though it is not the honorable way.

Thank you for all the strong traits that you have given me, and my breed. Help those to know that I stand for courage, strength, loyalty and bravery. And as my master already knows, let those who would come against my family know that I would surely die defending them.

And just one last thing that I would ask, Let my master know, that if you should call me away, that I will wait patiently at those pearly gates until the one chose me, comes home.


This poem is amazingly true. I'd like to write more, and will, but for now I'd rather wait until I'm less upset.......
 

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it is a beautiful, heartbreaking poem.
You made a huge point with
Let's say some 43 yr old white male kills someone. Does that mean that all 43 yr old white males will kill someone eventually???? No, of course not.
I am happy that there are a lot of animal lovers out there that bring out all the ressources possible to change mentalities, deconstruct prejudges
 

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Abker: LOL! Those pictures are great. :D
Soooo cute, I hope I see some pits at work today!

It's amusing, so many of our customers that come in, will walk AROUND, or just not come near, any big dogs, specially anything that looks like a pit. So ignorant. :roll:

Me, I can't resist going over and saying high and getting licks all over my face from every pit that comes in!
 

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Abker, I hope you were not referring to my post. I don't believe that either denial or "kill 'em all" is the answer. Nothing will be done to preserve the breed and protect human beings by either side! Pitbulls are NOT ALL vicious. But, portraying them with sites covered with dainty little flowery decorations is not accurate either. If both sides continue to be defensive and not face facts, the results will probably conclude with the elimination of the breed. We need to face the facts. They are not all killers; they are not all pussycats, either.

The fourth site you listed gives a more reasonable view, one that most people could agree with:

. Pit Bulls tend to LOVE people. All people. This makes them a poor choice for a "guardian breed". Most of them are simply too friendly to protect a house against strangers. A Pit Bull that shows unprovoked human aggression (puppy play nips do NOT count) is showing BAD temperament and in most cases should be put to sleep. Such a dog should obviously NEVER be bred under any circumstances. The breeding of dogs with bad temperaments is one of the largest problems the breed faces today and fuels the fire of breed specific legislation.
_____________________________________________________


With all due respect, isn't that concluding statement what I just posted? Along with a plea that we avoid the prevailing polarity?
______________________________________________________
 

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faile said:
i heard there are one or two types of breeds (i think pit bulls and dobermans, but i could be totally wrong) go nuts as they get older because although their skull stops growing, their brain doesn't. therefore it slowley drives them crazy. again- just something i've heard, i've no idea whether it's true or not.
This is a complete myth, for any breed of dog, including Pit Bulls and Dobermans.
 

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Abker, I hope you were not referring to my post. I don't believe that either denial or "kill 'em all" is the answer. Nothing will be done to preserve the breed and protect human beings by either side! Pitbulls are NOT ALL vicious. But, portraying them with sites covered with dainty little flowery decorations is not accurate either.

Why should we not protray them with sites with danity little flowers? I own three Pit Bulls (2 are mixes) and I rescue/foster them sometimes as well. Jaeden my full Pit Bull is nine months old. She has her "Canine Good Neighbour" http://www.ckc.ca/judge/cgn.asp and keeping in mind she was eight months when she was tested. She was one of the youngest dogs (they have to be six months to be tested) in Canada to be tested and passed, ever. And she's a Pit Bull.

She now goes to school with me and talks to hundreds of kids at a time, all under the age of 13. Most are mostly interested in pulling her ears, rubbing their cookie scented little hands all over her, poking fingers by mistake into her eyes. And she just sits there. I have never heard her bark while awake...only when she is having doggie dreams. I'm not joking either. She has mouthed me twice, both times by mistake. And if anyone thinks that a dog, let alone a Pit Bull cannot be ashamed of themselves....you need to come over and see her after she did this.

I have come to terms with the fact that I am second rate to kids with her, I am nothing but a leash holder when she spies kids. And even though I know that she would never hurt a child, I would never ever take a chance and leave her alone with them. I would never leave her alone with someone I did not know, someone I did know could handle a bad situation or someone under the age of 16.


If both sides continue to be defensive and not face facts, the results will probably conclude with the elimination of the breed. We need to face the facts. They are not all killers; they are not all pussycats, either.

It is extremely hard and sometimes painful to not be defensive. You love your cat right? So much so you are online talking with others that love their cats as well, right? Well think about how much you love your cat, and then think about how much it would hurt you if someone labelled your cat, that they had never met or refuse to give a chance too. A killer? How would you feel? How would you reply? How would you react?

I will tell you how it makes me feel and I am sure I am not alone in how I feel. It hurts. ALOT! It has made me cry a few times. I have had people glare at me and my dogs, move across the street when we are walking, yell at me, swear and tell me they hope my dogs die, someone even tried to steal my dog on Xmas eve!! and not for good intentions.

Sometime people just want to tell you all the misinformation they think that they know about Pit Bulls. Like a few weeks ago someone said to me "Don't ever look your dog in the eye, I heard that makes Pit Bulls attack, always without fail!". So I did and boy was I sorry..I got a tongue in the eye. Not fun.

I am never rude or anything but kind with all these people, although sometimes I do want to rip into them...because it hurts. And they have no idea most of the time what the heck they are talking about. To me insulting my dogs, would be like insulting my kids, if I had any!

And you're right they are not all pussycats either. But lets look at the facts here for a minute...you can show me all the so-called bite stats in the world. And it won't prove anything to me at least, because...they only show ONE side. They don't have the stats on how many dogs were included in total, and how many were loving household pets, and so on. They ONLY state how many have bitten someone. There are thousands and thousands of great loving house pet Pit Bulls in the USA alone. But do you ever hear about them? Once in a while you might, but that does NOT mean that they are not out there. They just are not as news worthy as an attack.

And something else about so-called Pit Bull attacks, I cannot tell you how many times I have read the headline "Killer Pit Bull Attack", then read the story to find out the dog was of another breed. And yes it does sound like Im pulling your leg but I am not! Another problem with media covering these "attacks" is most of the time no one on sight even knows what a Pit Bulls really is. A Pit Bull is not 140lbs, or even 80lbs...Pit Bulls are normally and accepted between 30-65lbs. It's just as of lately that backyard breeders have been breeding in other breeds, like mastiffs to add size and sometimes (and this happens more then we would like to think) HUMAN AGGRESSION.

Ohhh..that brings me to another point. Just because Pit Bulls are prone to ANIMAL AGGRESSION does NOT mean that they will have HUMAN AGGRESSION. They are two totally different types of aggression, and if one is present it does not mean it will lead to other. However they can both be present in the same dog, but they are not connected nor are they related. They simply are not the same thing.

All except my current rescue is non animal aggressive. In fact I own two cats of my own, and have three feral/homeless cats that I feed and take of, and of course I love them all. And I would never place them in danger, ie. owning a dog I knew I could not trust them around. But even though they get along, I still make sure when I am not home that the cats are safe in their own space and the dogs in theirs.

Prevention is key. Not everyone should or can own a Pit Bull, thankfully! And there are a lot of people who do own them, that should not. Dogs do not bite to maul or kill without some previous warning or sign. The thing is a lot of owners simple ignore, are not knowledgable or experinced enough to notice them.

Pit Bulls are not waking up one day, thinking to themselves "The sun is shining, the birds are singing...I think I will maul someone today!". It's more like...The dog was not properly socalized, maybe when it was a puppy the owner thought it was ok to let the puppy growl or snarl when you went to take a toy away, maybe they even without knowing it praised the dog in dog's eyes for doing so. Maybe the dog grew up living on the couch, and then the owner no longer wanted the dog up there. And so when told to get down the dog growled, the owner backed off thinking the dog is just "grumpy". The dog has now learned that being aggressive gets him/her their way. The next time the dog is told to do something and it does not want too, the dog will growl. And maybe that won't be enough this time, so the dog snaps at the owner. Again the owner ignores it...the dog again learns that its ok. See where I am going with this?

Pit Bulls are not just "snapping". I am not worried what so ever about my dogs snapping or even growling at me. I am the boss, they have been properly socalized and they are well trained. All but one has the "Good Canine Neighbour"! And at nine months old, Jaeden is being to be training to be a therapy dog.

I have owned all sorts of different breeds, some I would never own again to be honest, because of aggression problems. But Pit Bulls are not one of them. And if you think that I was always a lover or supporter of the breed, I was not. I was afraid of them, I always said "I would NEVER own one of THOSE dogs!" But now I own three, and my house would not be a home without a least two....and that alone should tell you something about their charms!

Plus they are the funniest breed you could ever ask for. And how could you not love this face?



That's my nine month old baby, Jaeden





Jaeden with her best friend my 5 year old nephew, Jakob.



Im just showing off now..



These two look like "killers" hey? :p



Jaeden and my cat Apollo...who rules in this house? That was the dogs bed!



Here's a great site with honest and the most true to the real Pit Bull that you can find...

http://www.realpitbull.com/
 

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Unfortunately, very untrue. Every month or so we hear about attacks from pit bulls here in FL. Just the other month a girl was mauled by her own pet which was never abused, and had been around children its whole life. It seems this is almost always the case. They always say... it was just this one time... a fluke... yet it happens over and over again. There are too many children who have been killed or scarred for life. For what? For a person to have an animal to prove their masculinity. They could have had another type of dog just as strong but less aggressive.

The solution: put them all to sleep.


How do you know the dog had never been abused? Sometimes even close family members, people living in the HOUSE do not even know. It's not something people are usually proud of and do around crowds or even other people. A dog does not need to be abused to attack, people seem to think you have to do something out right cruel to make a dog attack. This is not the case! Lack of socalization and training are not "cruel" but they are terribly unkind to your dog and the people who are around or near your dog. The dogs you read about might have been around children all their lives, sure. But in what situation? On a chain? Stuck in a kennel 24/7? With no contact? That's hardly the smartest, safest or kindest way to treat a dog or any animal.

Yes some of the attacks can be blamed on bad breeding, but not all.

Put them all to sleep? Why should my innocent dogs be killed?? That hardly seems fair.
 

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I'm sorry that my attempts to make peace have failed, and seem to have bred even more polarity. It is the dogs who will suffer.

My own dog weighs 90 pounds and is 28 inches at the shoulder. I raised and showed collies for ten years. Do I not qualify as a lover of dogs? I have no more to say. Just as Mulder had posted in his office. "The truth is out there." Nobody believed him. I'll conclude by saying there is truth on both sides, if you could only meet in the middle and listen to each other respectfully. But neither side seems to want to believe that. :(
 

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I want to listen to everyone with complete respect. I am sorry if I came off a little strong, though I don't think I really did. I was only expressing my side of it. But I certainly did not want to offend, so for that I am sorry!
 

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Pouty excellent posts. :) U brought up several good points that I failed to mention, thank u. :)

I'm sorry that my attempts to make peace have failed, and seem to have bred even more polarity. It is the dogs who will suffer.

My own dog weighs 90 pounds and is 28 inches at the shoulder. I raised and showed collies for ten years. Do I not qualify as a lover of dogs? I have no more to say. Just as Mulder had posted in his office. "The truth is out there." Nobody believed him. I'll conclude by saying there is truth on both sides, if you could only meet in the middle and listen to each other respectfully. But neither side seems to want to believe that.
I do not understand what u mean. We have been polite and peacful, but how are we supposed to agree on something this contriversial(sp?) when our opinions differ so greatly? I don't see how we can ever agree on this topic. :?

Let's put the blame where it belongs-on unethical breeders, and stop denying that some breeds are now dangerous.
This is what worried me about u're post. This is what is so untrue. The BREED is not dangerous. For now I have nothing more to say, we've made the points we can and now it's u're job to really think about it.
 

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Aonir said:
I'm sorry catman, I didn't mean to start this :(
no problem at all Aonir, you did nothing wrong.

there’s nothing wrong with a little discussion :) we just hit a dead end with this topic. each side will not convince the other that they are right.
 

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I think something important here, which has thus far not been mentioned, is the fact that these are dogs, they are ANIMALS.

They are not stuffed animals, they are not robots. It does not matter the breed, each dog and animal needs to be treated with care and respect, or yes, things are bound to happen. A lot of people loose site of this.

I wish for all the nay sayers to be able to have a good experience with a pit and other such "feared" breeds some day. Not to say I told you so, but so that you can finally see what you have been missing out on.

I don't think anyone stepped out of line in their posts here, but I do know we can be sensitive to things other people say.

Good day!
 

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If anyone was confused about anything here, I think Jeanie meant more that ALL dogs can have bad temperment, and can be dangerous. Not just pit bulls.

I hate to even think of putting an animal to sleep, but if an animal has a bad temperment where it would possibly harm other people or animals it's a tough call. And how exactly can you differentiate bad temperment from a dog that perhaps has an extreme urge to protect it's owners?
 

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I found this poem and I wanted to share it with u all.

Here I am,
Here is ther place.
And there's the table
Where they wipe out my race.



What is it that people
Have against me?
Why do they do this?
Please just let me free.



Millions were before me,
And many more will come soon.
Why do they always take us
To the dark, damp room?



Nobody wants us
And that is not right.
So what if our first use
Included dog fights.



This isn't fair to me.
I don't know what I did wrong.
The murder of Innocents
has gone on too long.



Here comes the needle,
And even though I pull,
This shelter along with many
has killed another innocent Pit Bull.





Everyday, thousands of Pit Bulls who are perfectly capable of getting good homes are euthanized just because the shelter doesn't allow the breed to be adopted out.


And if I misunderstood anyone, then I'm sorry, but through writing things can often be taken the wrong way.
 

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I didn't know that pitbulls were not let for adoption. It is yet another sad fact.
We all had a lot to learn from everything that has been posted here.
 
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