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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so I bought some tiny white rats, cut the stomach open and offered to my cats. They won't eat. They sniffed the dead rat thoroughly and then looked at me puzzled. So I coated the rat with their favorite canned food (yuck yuck yuck!), and they licked all the food off the rat, like giving the rat a bath, and then left. I think Metoo did put a rat in her mouth for once, but either she spitted it out or it slipped through her teeth.

Anyway, total failure here... I'm not suprised Meatball doesn't want to eat the rat. She is always picky. But Metoo usually eat everything, from rice to orage to tea leaf, and for some reason she ruled the rat out of her menu. LOL. Back to raw chicken now...

So what should I do? Should I borrow a mouser and let him/her show my girls that rats are food?
 

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This is part of why I've put whole prey on the back burner. I'd like to at some point, but they aren't into it and i can't handle the next step.

You can either go a size down on your prey items (so hoppers instead of adults), or you can chop them up. Mine won't eat even pinkies (well, Jitzu will, but the other 3 won't), and I just couldn't handle chopping them up. *shudders*

...oddly enough the two times I bought whole piglet for the kitties I had much less troubel chopping it up. But the mice I couldn't do. Strange.
 

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Yeah, I understand that patience is key to the transition. My girls never complained when switch directly from dry to canned, and canned to raw chicken wings and hearts, so I might be pushing my luck too far.

But what I don't get is, for switching to whole prey, what the "intermediate status" should be? Like from dry to canned, you mix some canned into dry and slowly increase the amount. How can I do it with whole prey? As I mentioned in the first post, I tred mixing canned with the tiny rat but they didn't take the rat, only canned. Should I cut the rat into small pieces and mix with canned? But the rat will never look/feel the same as a whole prey this way...
 

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Maybe cut the rat in half and do half cut up mixed with canned, and the other half just smeared with canned until they get the message. And then decrease the amount of canned until you only have to cut the belly open.

I am no expert, but it's the only way I can see it happening.
 

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My boyfriend had success feeding a cat an egg yolk by having her lick some of it off of his finger. She didn't realize it was food, I think. This is a little harder with a rat, of course, but perhaps you can try another whole prey. We feed our cats one-day-old chicks from a company that supplies zoos and all of our cats LOVE them. We also bought some mice but only one of our cats finds them tasty and the other two walk away. So, maybe you can try chicks instead? They might be more familiar with the chicken smell.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Maybe cut the rat in half and do half cut up mixed with canned, and the other half just smeared with canned until they get the message. And then decrease the amount of canned until you only have to cut the belly open.

I am no expert, but it's the only way I can see it happening.
Thanks for the idea. I will give it a try :p
 

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My boyfriend had success feeding a cat an egg yolk by having her lick some of it off of his finger. She didn't realize it was food, I think. This is a little harder with a rat, of course, but perhaps you can try another whole prey. We feed our cats one-day-old chicks from a company that supplies zoos and all of our cats LOVE them. We also bought some mice but only one of our cats finds them tasty and the other two walk away. So, maybe you can try chicks instead? They might be more familiar with the chicken smell.
I don't know where to find chicks. It's not sold anywhere here (at lease not I aware of). We don't have lots of whole prey (or even raw food) producers in Canada, and shipping from US is not practical :?
 

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You're all nuts. These are domesticated cats. They shouldnt be eating this type of meat. You dont know what kind of diseases this rat has or raw food for that matter. Like I said these are DOMESTICATED cats. Cats in the wild catching their own food dont live as long.
 

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You're all nuts. These are domesticated cats. They shouldnt be eating this type of meat. You dont know what kind of diseases this rat has or raw food for that matter. Like I said these are DOMESTICATED cats. Cats in the wild catching their own food dont live as long.
And that makes them any less of a cat......how? They are STILL CATS, just like lions, which means they are STILL OBLIGATORY CARNIVORES and thus they NEED meat. She didn't just grab a rat off the street, she bought a rat from a dealer that sells them for the purposes of other animals like snakes. Thus, they don't have "diseases" and even if they did, a cat is designed to handle such bacteria since their digestive systems work so quickly.

Perhaps you should do some more research before coming in a forum and calling us all "nuts."

@yingying:

I don't know where to find chicks. It's not sold anywhere here (at lease not I aware of). We don't have lots of whole prey (or even raw food) producers in Canada, and shipping from US is not practical :???:
You're just have to do some hunting. There ARE chicken farms in Canada and there ARE zoos in Canada, thus there must be someway the zoos get their food. As far as chicken farms go, they destroy all rooster chicks so they have plenty extra and you can usually get them for cheap as long as you're willing to go and get them. It just takes a bit of extra work, but in my opinion, it is A LOT less work than preparing three "frankenprey" meals per day for three cats, not to mention they LOVE them.

So, just try. Do some Google searches for chicken farms in your area or ask your local butcher/supermarket where they get their chicken and/or eggs from. Try to contact your local zoo as well and ask them what they use. It's worth a try as it's VERY CHEAP (for us, anyway) and very easy, not to mention very healthy for your kitty :) Good luck!
 

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You're all nuts. These are domesticated cats. They shouldnt be eating this type of meat. You dont know what kind of diseases this rat has or raw food for that matter. Like I said these are DOMESTICATED cats. Cats in the wild catching their own food dont live as long.
... They usually don't live long because, you know, cars. Dogs. Coyotes. No treatment for diseases. Etc.
 

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They are not like lions, lions arent domesticated like cats have been for years. I dont believe in raw diets either. These meats heve never had the bacteria cooked out of them. Do you have studies (controled that prove your theory? I doubt it because their arent any. The whole thing, raw and whole pray) are a bunch of people who are riding the new phase and some teachings that are not proven.
 

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They are not like lions, lions arent domesticated like cats have been for years. I dont believe in raw diets either. These meats heve never had the bacteria cooked out of them. Do you have studies (controled that prove your theory? I doubt it because their arent any. The whole thing, raw and whole pray) are a bunch of people who are riding the new phase and some teachings that are not proven.
There is next to no biological difference between a domesticated cat's metabolic system than those of lions etc. And they all have one thing in common: raw meat is what they eat.

When Galileo was alive "believing" that the sun was the centre of the solar system with "no proof", people called him "nuts", too.

All of us here *want* more formal research into this, but the funding just isn't there because major petfood companies are the only ones doing any research at all, and they're merely testing whether or not their food will kill the animal; afterall, they want to sell THEIR food, not someone else's.

But personally, I don't need formal clinical proof because I've seen how it has affected my own cats. My one cat is no longer obese and my other doesn't have bladder crystals anymore and no longer pees all over everything.

I also don't need proof because I know that this is what cats eat. You don't question whether a cow eats grass or whether the lion eats zebra, do you? Why question this?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You're all nuts. These are domesticated cats. They shouldnt be eating this type of meat. You dont know what kind of diseases this rat has or raw food for that matter. Like I said these are DOMESTICATED cats. Cats in the wild catching their own food dont live as long.
Err... Cats are domesticated for at least 5000 years... And the purpose of their (initial) domestication is to kill mouse and other small rodents for farmers. It's only in recent hundreds of years that we "upgraded" them to pets. There are still lots of mousers living in farms and urban areas. So I don't see why domestic cats, either indoor only and pet only or indoor/outdoor pet/mouser (you need to understande the differences between "wild cats" and "domestic cats", they are different species), are not supposed to eat rats. They are same animal living in different environments. It's like muslims don't eat pork but that doesn't mean human are not supposed to eat pork at all.

It's true that feral cats in the wild in general don't live as long, same as wild tiger, panda, zebra, don't live as long in wild as in zoo. It's not because of the food, but they don't get proper treatment when injured or sick, and they usually don't die of old age because they will either starve to death before it (as old tigers and cannot hunt successfully) or being eaten (as old zebras cannot run fast to get rid of the preditor). For feral cats you also need to add the dangers of cars, malicous people, etc. to the contributor of their death.
 

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You're just have to do some hunting. There ARE chicken farms in Canada and there ARE zoos in Canada, thus there must be someway the zoos get their food. As far as chicken farms go, they destroy all rooster chicks so they have plenty extra and you can usually get them for cheap as long as you're willing to go and get them. It just takes a bit of extra work, but in my opinion, it is A LOT less work than preparing three "frankenprey" meals per day for three cats, not to mention they LOVE them.
That brought back my memory :D I used to have rooster chicks as pet. A friend of our family brought a big box of them from chicken farm for me. They are sooo cute but also very fragile. Over the same night they arrived at my home almost 70% of them died. Then within the week another 20% died. Which left me only 5-6 of them. But these are very robust. I had such good time with them :D

I will try following your suggestions. I'm goint to Toronto zoo this weekend, maybe I can ask the zookeepers there.
 

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That brought back my memory :D I used to have rooster chicks as pet. A friend of our family brought a big box of them from chicken farm for me. They are sooo cute but also very fragile. Over the same night they arrived at my home almost 70% of them died. Then within the week another 20% died. Which left me only 5-6 of them. But these are very robust. I had such good time with them :D

I will try following your suggestions. I'm goint to Toronto zoo this weekend, maybe I can ask the zookeepers there.
Cool, that's a great idea! Have fun and good luck! Maybe take some pictures for us :)
 

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You're all nuts. These are domesticated cats. They shouldnt be eating this type of meat. You dont know what kind of diseases this rat has or raw food for that matter. Like I said these are DOMESTICATED cats. Cats in the wild catching their own food dont live as long.
They are not like lions, lions arent domesticated like cats have been for years. I dont believe in raw diets either. These meats heve never had the bacteria cooked out of them. Do you have studies (controled that prove your theory? I doubt it because their arent any. The whole thing, raw and whole pray) are a bunch of people who are riding the new phase and some teachings that are not proven.
I love how you just completely ignored the explanations offered to you for why feeding raw meat to cats in a proper way is generally quite safe. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again about how "cats are not lions" and about how domestication somehow makes raw diets bad for them, without actually offering any evidence or sound logic to support your point.

How much actual research have you done on raw diets, or are you just dismissing them as "nuts" without actually knowing much about them? Because had you actually done any significant research you wouldn't be so rudely dismissive about the topic, I suspect, or would at least be able to have an informed discussion about it rather than stubbornly repeating the same thing over and over with no further explanation.

I had many reservations about raw when it was first recommended to me. I did a great deal of research (including, yes, looking at the results of studies, because they DO exist) before deciding to try it. Everything I found dissuaded my fears and suggested that it was the best thing I could do for my cats. I spoke to two different vets on the topic, purchased a book written by a veterinarian and certified feline nutritionist, and read multiple other texts on the subject.

My cat Athena had chronic digestive issues when I adopted her. She was experiencing painful gas and bloating and chronic soft stools. She smelled awful and would cry when she used the litterbox. Do you know what fixed her? A raw diet. Because that was the diet her sensitive digestive system was most well-suited to process. Once I put her on the raw diet, her stools became more solid, her gas and bloating went away, she no longer smelled or cried when using the box. Raw food significantly improved her quality of life. The coats of both my cats became softer and healthier looking (Athena's had been greasy and disheveled before), my chubby cat Apollo lost weight and now maintains an extremely healthy and fit build.

My (well-educated in feline care and nutrition) veterinarian supports this diet and every single time I bring my cats in, she is very pleased with their health, and comments on how much healthier they look than most of the cats she sees who're on horribly species-inappropriate corn-filled dry diets.

Raw food has done nothing but helped my cats and had I not put Athena on it, she would have continued to be sick. So don't go around telling us we're nuts without knowing what you're talking about. Calling us all "nuts" because you disagree with us or don't understand a different perspective because you haven't done the appropriate research is naive, ignorant, and frankly just plain rude.
 

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You're way, WAY off topic, completely and utterly ignorant of the facts, and rude to boot. If you would like to start a discussion around raw, feel free to begin your own thread; there are many who would be happy to help educate you. In the meantime, give YingYang the courtesy he is due and stay off this thread.

AC
*high five* Auntie Crazy!!!
 
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