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Discussion Starter #1
did you all watch the HBO show BIG LOVE the other night? It's about a Utah man who was three wives. It's actually quite interesting even if it has a different situational take on polygamy.

Because it's interesting the has people talking about the issue. SO I wanted to know if you all had seen it?

There's this article entitled: Polygamy: The Ultimate Feminist Choice by one of the Utah NOW women of all folks.

Here's the link to it:

http://www.polygamy.com/Practical/Ultimate.htm
 

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From a biological and child-rearing standpoint, polygamy is sensible. Consider the many species in the wild where the females take a communal interest in the young. As a social structure, it isn't unheard of. From a practical standpoint, this can be an asset.

You know, I've thought about this a great deal over the years, challenging my own perceptions. I grew up believing that we're all special snowflakes and that there's one person out there for each of us, just waiting to make me feel like a princess for the rest of my life. Over the course of my own marriage, I've learned that it just isn't true. Marriages require sacrifice, compromise, understanding, and profound amounts of patience. They take work, and if you don't work hard enough, we're led to believe we're failures for conceding divorce. Having a divorce in your past is, for some, a blemish.

Accepting polygamy requires one to set aside that pre-defined notion that the ideal situation for love, friendship, and the rest is two people. That's simply not true. Through chance, I've met many people who live in 'open marriages'. I have trouble wrapping my mind around this concept, that people could not only fall in love with multiple people (well, that's not so hard to believe - every one of us has done it in our lives, or will do so), but could be accepting of the fact that their spouse/loved one is having intimate relations with another person. It inspires complete disbelief in me. But why should my lack of empathy somehow diminish the fact that it's working for them?

And why are we so convinced that these women are victims? I'm not seeing it. Just as there can be battered wives in single marriages, there can be victims in multiple marriages - but victimisation is not a requirement, particularly not in progressive America.

So after several years of challenging my own world view on marriage, I've come to accept polygamy and the shared lifestyle as being not only feasible, but acceptable. It's their choice, and it's their life. If Elizabeth Joseph is comfortable with her decisions, I wish her the best of luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The issue with polygamy as a traditional practice, though, is that it is ONE man with many wives. Why is that? Because that practice is sexist as it is not equally distributed.

*special snowflakes* is very funny! I think you are a special snowflake!

And the "open marriages" you've encountered: are they sexually open or are they "open families?" Sharing in familial duties, all under one roof?
 

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mdmenagerie said:
The issue with polygamy as a traditional practice, though, is that it is ONE man with many wives. Why is that? Because that practice is sexist as it is not equally distributed.
That's definitely true, and I think the only reason it's that way is because the communities that typically practice polygamy do so from a religious standpoint, which is primarily patriarchal.

mdmenagerie said:
*special snowflakes* is very funny! I think you are a special snowflake!
*giggles!* Eee!

mdmenagerie said:
And the "open marriages" you've encountered: are they sexually open or are they "open families?" Sharing in familial duties, all under one roof?
They're open sexually, so I suppose my friends are getting the sexual benefits but none of the practical ones... which is kinda too bad. I'd think that having a live-in sitter and shared housekeeping would be awfully nice. :lol: Maybe it would defray some of the anxiety over... the other stuff.
 

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Perhaps the reason polygamy as a practice, is sexist, is the fact that it has never really become socially acceptable. At it's basis it's a sexist practice, like most things, but unlike most things it hasn't had the opportunity to progress and develop into something that is embraced my males and females alike.

I'm with aphrodeia, in that we have ourselves established a world were the perfect relationship requires only two people. But I'm not sure that this notion is realistic...how many people have affairs, or even entertain the idea of an affair? And then we insist on affairs being 'immoral' and 'unfaithful'...but affairs are often based solely on the idea of sex, not companionship. So actually considering that affairs are based on a natural instinct, are they that immoral, or are we, as a society, insisting on restricting one of the most normal activities and urges known to man (and woman!)?

I have a friend that is involved in an 'open' relationship. He and his partner share and exchange partners. They have one of the most solid and stable relationships I've ever encountered. It makes you wonder why we label this practice as so taboo. Perhaps because of our sexual insecurities as a society? Wow, way off topic...sorry!

Really interesting thread. It'll be really interesting to hear what people think about this.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Again, though, the "open" part of the relationship is sexually speaking which goes back to a biological drive not a social force, which is what modern polygamists (like the author of the article) are advocating for.

We can talk about both, though, b/c I understand the biological perspective but for my husband and I it doesn't work. I don't judge those who choose to have open relationships b/c it is their relationships and if it makes them healthier and happier and no one is being harmed, then go for it :)

In terms of polygamy, if the social force of polygamy is that people want open families so that they can get some help with child care, meal planning, housecleaning, and other household chores I wonder why it has to come in the form of polygamy and not just folks getting HELP. If money is an issue, then is communal living the answer? Communal living where people share all these responsibilities but not spouses :)
 

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mdmenagerie said:
In terms of polygamy, if the social force of polygamy is that people want open families so that they can get some help with child care, meal planning, housecleaning, and other household chores I wonder why it has to come in the form of polygamy and not just folks getting HELP.
Communes were around in relative abundance a few decades ago, but they fell out of fashion, dismissed as "hippie living". Which is too bad, because I think it's brilliant.

mdmenagerie said:
If money is an issue, then is communal living the answer? Communal living where people share all these responsibilities but not spouses :)
Perhaps, but I caution you on flinging about such radical viewpoints. ;) You'll get yourself labelled a "socialist" quicker than you can blink.

Socialism and communism, even from a societal standpoint (completely devoid of economic implications), are still dirty words.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Oh I am totally a socialist and I'm also a hippie--big time. In fact, my avatar nickname on another board is "displaced hippie" b/c I definitely was born in the wrong generation.

It's really what undergirds the "it takes a village" concept, too.

UTOPIA indeed :D
 

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NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

My father had two wives concurrently. As a result, he had five daughters. As a result, he couldn't have afforded any single one of us, plus the son his second wife had before he met her.

Both of his wives fought for precious resources. They almost killed each other a couple of times (actually my Dad's second wife had an advantage, being almost a foot taller and much stronger than my mother).

Growing up watching people trying to kill other people is NOT fun. Especially since all three of them subsequently tried to kill themselves half a dozen times. I had to escape and come to America at age 13, with absoultely no English skills. I finally got my mother and her daughters emigrated to America last Christmas. Over the years due to the humiliation (by my Dad's coworkers, since she was forced to live with them because she could not afford to move), the fear, and the pain had made her bipolar. As soon as I moved her to Houston she immediately began to improve. So did my sisters....they were suicidal before I moved them to Houston but they are totally and absolutely fine right now, enjoying the few years of teenage frivolity that they had left.

I thought I was finally out of the drama (fun on television, not fun in real life.....I don't watch anything except crime shows nowadays)

Two years ago, I almost got killed by ANOTHER desperate young 25-year-old single mother with a five year old kid. Deja vu.

I hate women.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
shengmei said:
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO



I thought I was finally out of the drama (fun on television, not fun in real life.....I don't watch anything except crime shows nowadays)

Two years ago, I almost got killed by ANOTHER desperate young 25-year-old single mother with a five year old kid. Deja vu.

I hate women.
While unfortunate incidents, that incident has nothing to do with polygamy. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

Please note that it's not the women in the polygamy triangle you should hate, though, but the person who was forcing them into the situation. I should say "if they were forced."

AND I think it's terrible that you hate all women. Hopefully that will change sometime in your life. What a very broad statement to make. Women are wonderful, amazing creatures. Maybe you could say that you hate the women who have hurt you? Surely that's more directed?

Back to polygamy, is it legal in China?
 

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It is not legal in Taiwan. However there is a "prosecution" period. If the first wife knows about the polygamy and doesn't file a legal suit within the first six months of knowing the polygamy, she forfeits her right to prosecute.

My mother filed a legal suit after five months. However, my dad tried to kill himself with carbon monoxide. He finally persuaded my mother to drop the suit.

My father did not initiate the polygamy, though. His secretary (second wife) spiked his drink with ecstasy. Then she got pregnant and my dad had to marry her to take care of the child. Ten years later, she did it again (I guess they were going to break up) and produced her second daughter with my father.
 

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shengmei said:
My father did not initiate the polygamy, though. His secretary (second wife) spiked his drink with ecstasy. Then she got pregnant and my dad had to marry her to take care of the child.
Again, this doesn't really have to do with polygamy. The crux of the debate, it would seem, is about consentual polygamy. Each party making the decision to engage in a plural marriage. This woman committed rape. It's not about polygamy.

About the part of your post concerning finances, not all plural marriages have financial problems. For that matter, many traditional marriages have serious financial problems. Does that mean traditional marriage is a bad idea?

Did you read the story linked in the original post?
 

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Yes. I did read it.

However, polygamy relies on the fact BOTH women needs to be people with reasoning and logic. They must be extremely rational people as to not compete for resources for their offspring. Polygamy works best if there are no offsprings attached. I just don't think most women are rational enough to pull it off. The only rational women in my life are my coworkers, people working in the scientific field.

There is no such thing as an independent woman with children. As soon as children enter the equation, you have to be responsible for them. Being responsible for offsprings does not leave one to become independent. It is the utmost in dependency.
 

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At least I only slam HALF of humanity, not all of it. So techically I am not a hermit and a recluse just yet. I am great with guys.

Also, I deeply admire rational, scientific women.

Why is it okay for people to hate humanity, all men, but not women in the first place? Who made up such rules?
 

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Re: Your edit.
There is no such thing as an independent woman with children. As soon as children enter the equation, you have to be responsible for them. Being responsible for offsprings does not leave one to become independent. It is the utmost in dependency.
And you don't believe the women involved in consentual plural marriages care for the children of one another? I don't see any independence here. It's a family.
 

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Honestly, it sounds like your personal hatred for women is clouding your opinion about the idea of polygamy. You seem to think that the women involved, not the men, will be petty, cruel, and ultimately destructive. Again, these sorts of things are not exclusive to polygamous marriages, nor are these occurrences so regular that we should devise policy around it.
 

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My only comment on this and it's a funny thing that happened......
When my husband and I went for our Adjustment of Status Interview with Immigration in December, the officer that iterviewed us asked Garry....

"Have you come into the United States with the intent to practice Poligamy?"

Garry looked very puzzled....he looked at me, then he looked at our lawyer, then he turned to the Officer and said in his wonderful Welsh Accent............"Pollllllllllllllliggammmmmmmyyyyyyyyy?" "Whaaaaaas
that?" The Officer then said it's having more than one wife. My husband then laughed and said" Don;t you think one wife is more than enough?"

It was a classic moment! At that moment we were approved!~
 

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Discussion Starter #20
debo said:
My only comment on this and it's a funny thing that happened......
When my husband and I went for our Adjustment of Status Interview with Immigration in December, the officer that iterviewed us asked Garry....

"Have you come into the United States with the intent to practice Poligamy?"

Garry looked very puzzled....he looked at me, then he looked at our lawyer, then he turned to the Officer and said in his wonderful Welsh Accent............"Pollllllllllllllliggammmmmmmyyyyyyyyy?" "Whaaaaaas
that?" The Officer then said it's having more than one wife. My husband then laughed and said" Don;t you think one wife is more than enough?"

It was a classic moment! At that moment we were approved!~
Hilarious! Tim says similar things.
 
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